30-32 cal pistols

Actually Jeff, for me it isn't about getting the hang of it, as much as it is about my own world view of tradition. And the world according to Steve has revolvers at 5 and 6 rounds, as the caliber/revolver match up. Sorry....just me!;) (hey, I also like Bloody Mary mix in my Sam Adams....so why listen to me?:))

Also Jeff, I just think it prudent on a very high PSI cartridge like the .327 that a wise foreign policy dictates a little more meat between chambers in that smallish Ruger cylinder. To the credit of the manufacturer, I like that unfluted cylinder profile. I have seen but a few in the .32 H&R Single Sixes out there.:(

I always found it bizarre that H&R, the supposed developer of this round never factory chambered it in their Handi-Gun. I have read elsewhere that gunsmith John Taylor makes a great .327 barrel to your specs from the ground up.
 
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9.3X62AL

Guest
The 32 H&R Magnum (yes, it is sort of a misnomer) was never well-served by the gunmakers, and it remains to be seen whether the 327 Federal gets any better treatment. The 32 S&W Long has been utterly ignored by gunmakers for 30+ years, and between the high-capacity magazine fetish in the autopistol world and the Magnumizing of wheelguns by the few makers plying that trade......gentle and enjoyable shooting like that possible with the 32 SWL gets lost in the shuffle.

The makers "double down" on their poor decision-making, too. When they do finally create an otherwise usable 32 caliber platform, they seemingly engineer it to fail by 1) trying to turn it into a "hi-cap" (Blackhawk, Single-Seven, GP-100), 2) put on too short a barrel (GP-100), or 3) decorate it like some Barbie Doll with Day-Glo sights. I'm surprised they lack Picatinny rails so far.

People that would buy revolvers are largely traditionalists. Intro models need to respond to that majority market and not try to fill niches to the exclusion of mainstream buyers. If shooters want to "play dress-up" with Barbies, let them build ARs or buy Glocks. Current marketing of 327 Federal revolvers will damn the caliber to failure, because the variants offered are so off-putting to many potential buyers. Who on earth is running Ruger these days?
 

Jeff Michel

Member
Steve
Never tried Bloody Mary mix, tomato juice works pretty good though. Likes and dislikes are unique to the individual. For my part, when the original SSM was being produced, I was unable to afford one. As time passed, finances improved and the hunt began. And I looked for years. When Ruger finally brought out the Blackhawk, I though like you, an eight shooter? But an eight shooter is much better than a no shooter. I made the acquisition. Finally! All those demons planted in my head by Ed Harris can be exercised. My this thing is heavy I thought, as I toted it through the woods. Obviously not a permanent solution. I liked it well enough but along comes this Buckeye special and again felt that this was the one. Six shooter, two calibers and blued to boot. Did I mention heavy? Then there was this GP-100, better but not a Goldilocks sort of solution. THEN Lipsey stepped up and had Ruger make a run of Single Sevens! Stainless seven shooter but hey, it don't weigh as much as a Panzer MK III. Got one, got used to the indexing aspect (it is weird to get used too.) I love it, shoot almost daily and to make matters more annoying, a friend of mine decided to down size and sold me two SSM's 6.5 and a 4 5/8. So I did end up with a Ruger in .32 Mag, it just took me an extra 25 years. I like them all and shoot them all. I do wish that Ruger would make a .32 Mag or .327 in their 77 small frame rifle.
Good shooting
 

Harry O-1

Member
I am kind of late to this conversation, but I have some experience with most of the discussed calibers so here goes. The first handgun I ever shot was my Father's 32-20 Colt Police Positive Special. He let me shoot it when I bought the ammunition. Once, I bought some "rifle-only" loads (long story). It bent the crane (yoke) of the gun in the first cylinderfull. I had it repaired and only shot standard loads out of it after that. I inherited it and still have it. A few years later I found a kid with access to his fathers 32-20 Colt SAA. We fired the rest of the "rifle-only" loads in it. The blast was impressive. It was more of a loud CRACK than a loud boom. I would say that it was the loudest handgun cartridge I have ever heard, although I have not heard any handgun more powerful than a .44 Magnum. I attribute at least some of my present hearing loss to those cartridges. We fired some at dusk and there was a 2' or 3' fireball out the end of the barrel. It did not appear to hurt the SAA.

A few years later I got a Thompson Contender barrel in 32-20 and shortly after that, a Marlin 1894 in 32-20. I loaded up some cartridges with 10gr, 12gr and finally 12.5gr of 2400 with 100gr to 115gr bullets of various types. There was no noise problem with shooting that in the Marlin, but it was considerably louder in the Contender. I do NOT believe that it was as loud as the "rifle-only" loads, but who knows for sure. I have loaded hot loads in the 32-20 with SR4756, Unique, and HS-6. None of them were as loud as the 2400 loads.

I have fired 30Carbine cartridges in a friends Ruger revolver. We used my ammunition that was loaded the same as the rifle 32-20 load, 12.5gr of 2400 with a 110gr FMJ or soft-point. I had been shooting it in my M1 Carbine and a Marlin Model 62. Nothing unusually loud with that. The same load in the Ruger was much louder, but again, I don't think it was as loud as the "rifle-only" loads. I have not loaded the 30Carbine with other powders, so I cannot compare their relative loudness.

I have loaded 32 S&W Long for a lot of years, but never at a hot enough load to make it unusually loud. In fact, it could be considered mild. My first 32 H&R Magnum was acquired in the late 1980's or early 1990's. It was a S&W J-frame Super-KitGun, so I did not load it heavier than factory loads. Louder than the .32 S&W Long, but not nearly as loud as the 32-20 or 30Carbine. Later I got a .32 Mag Ruger Super-SingleSix and just recently a Ruger SP-101. I did up the loads in those. I went up to 8.5gr of 2400 in the single-action, but because of sticky ejection, I polished the chambers and reduced the load to 7.5gr. They are loud, but cannot compare with the heavily loaded 32-20 or 30Carbine.

I have no experience with the .327 Magnum (yet), but would expect that it would match the heavily loaded 32-20 and 30Carbine as to noise. It might even match the "rifle-only" loads. If so, I would suggest wearing ear plugs and muffs. You could also experiment with faster powders. It seems that there is a big difference in noise between 2400 or slower powders compared with Unique or faster powders.
 

Missionary

Well-Known Member
Greetings
My first experience with caliber .30 handguns was at Ft. Hood. A tank commander had a Ruger BH in 30 Carbine. Our armoror had cases of caliber 30 Carmine left over from Korea (of the books) so it was issued out to anyone who had a "need". Great fun popping jack rabbits and armadillos with a few skunks throwed in.

Then I came across some Mauser 1896 Broom handles pre WW1 with shoulder stocks that have been fun to shoot.

My 32-20 revolver came about because after years of popping ground hogs with a bad bore 1873 rifle finally found a Savage 32-20. That rifle is wonderfully accurate and no challenge to pop ground hog type critters up close. So did a bit of work on a Dan Wesson model 15-2 frame made a 32-20. With as 4 inch barrel it does all the under 25 yards shots. Generally I shoot 115 cast as I found lighter weights not reliable for popping large ground hogs, raccoons and yotes through the shoulders.
Mike in Peru
 

JSH

Active Member
I am another that has 30/32 handgun itch.
I all but had a buckeye 32-20/32 mag bought the year they came out. Finally got it, the same one 20+ years later.
So I opted for the 30-20 on the contender platform. Shot IHMSA any way and the super slow was the "in" thing. Shot 180 and 190 sierras for a few years. Scores just didn't please me so I went to150-16 grainers. Then I started casting. Shoot a 165 rcbs over a dose of AA9 or WC820. This load is right at what any 30x221 will do. Then acquired a BF in 30-20. A bit harder to work with but an excellent shooter with any cast bullet I have tried.
Then finally got the Blackhawk buckeye. Yes it is heavy. I like it and load for it accordingly. I push 140 plain base flat nose at 1500. Put a Bowen rear sight on it. It will stay at close to 3 1/2"@ 100.
Then the release of the single sevens. Got a 7.5 and liked it so much I got a 5.5. Tinkered with both but not near enough. I would like one of the eight shot Blackhawks. That is kind of back burnered unless one falls in my lap at the right price.

I want a lever gun in a small 30. I don't understand why main has not got on the band wagon with a 32 mag or the 327. None the less I am thinking of building a 30x357 mag, ala rimmed whisper or blackout on a marlin lever action.

The 32-20 in modern firearms with modern powder is a magnum. It will leave the 327 behind.
 

Missionary

Well-Known Member
Greetings
Fairly easy on this conversion. DW made 32-20 cylinders for the 15-2 frame which was the basic frame for many calibers. Hunted about till I found a cylinder. You may have to do a little timing adjustment on the pawl but maybe not. Headspace may need a spacer for brass head spacing or possibly the face on the ejector star polished a bit. None of this is hard if you are apt to think first and use tools carefully.
As you know the barrels are threaded for adjustable cylinder gap so that is no issue. I set mine at .001+. The barrel length will depend on your barrel shroud but 4 or 6 inch are easily found. Longer costs a bit more but all barrels shrouds for the 15-2 frame are interchangeable no matter what the caliber is stamped on it. Get a caliber.308 barrel cut it to length and thread both ends. The frame end is threaded longer. Thread is the same both ends as the barrel nut is the same thread. Clearly mark the barrel so you do not mix a .308 barrel with a .357 cylinder.
My next conversion on 15-2 frame will be a 41 Colt. Will use a .357 cylinder reamed for 41 Long Colt brass . Thread up a barrel.
The Large frame DW or the Supermag frames can be adapted along the same lines. Have a 45 Colt on a 44 Mag frame. Then a 414 Supermag on a 357 max frame. Thinking about a 445 Supermag also.
Mike in Peru
 

Harry O-1

Member
I have a S&W NewModel 16 that was converted from .32 H&R Magnum to 32-20. It is one of the most accurate handguns I have. The 32-20 reamer will not completely clean up the .32 Magnum chamber. The fired case comes out of the rechambering looking like a double bottle-neck case. That does not seem to decrease the accuracy at all and does not significantly decrease the life of the brass. It is a cheap and easy conversion, provided the gunsmith has a good finish reamer. The first one I had work on it had an old reamer that was slightly undersized. I later found a gunsmith with a brand-new, never-used reamer who finished the job. It is one of the last guns I will ever let go.

Missionary: Your idea on a 41 Long Colt conversion sounds interesting. I have long thought of making a modern 41LC. A long, long time ago a guy named Gene Crum made a "modern" 41 Long Colt (mid-1980's or earlier). He took a Colt revolver in .357 Magnum and had it rechambered in 41LC. Instead of boring the chamber straight through, he had a smaller throat in the front of the cylinder. A custom barrel was bored at 0.385" diameter. He also had a custom mould made. It was similar to a Keith semi-wadcutter at 0.386"OD, 200gr, with a plain base. He loaded it up to the point where the muzzle energy was exactly halfway between the .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum. I have the mould now, along with a letter from Mr. Crum. It won't shoot worth a damm in a regular 41LC, but evidently was very accurate in the gun he had built. If you check the numbers, his gun is almost exactly halfway between the .357 and .44 Magnums in bullet diameter, bullet weight, and power. It would have been an improvement over the 41 Magnum for Police use. He said the recoil was reasonable.

I thought of getting one done on a Colt .357 Magnum target gun with adjustable sights, but the price of them has always been high and they exploded in the last few years. A gunsmith who rebored rifle barrels did not want to do the conversion (or just the rebore) for various reasons. Never got around to it. If anyone does make one let me know and I will sell you a custom NEI mould for it.
 

Missionary

Well-Known Member
Howdy Harry
You are still my 41 Colt inspiration. What an interesting and entertaining journey it has been.
My only wondering with the 357 DW cylinder is how much material will remain on the exterior cylinder wall. I am only looking for a 3F BP revolver so it does not have to be a whole lot. Probably stay with heal bullets also. A 250 grainer 40-1 that drops .001 less than the groove. May keep the bored through cylinder .001 over groove just to be going with great groove fit.
Mike in Peru
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I own several 32 S+W, S+W Long, 32-20 and 32 Mag rifles and handguns. I know the modern thinking is that you have to at least have a 32 Mag to have enough powder space to push the bullet out the barrel, but you do yourself a great disservice by going that route. If you want a hot 32, get a 32-20. There are lever and bolt rifles out there (Savage 23's are fantastic) and lots of revolvers. But don't over look the 32S+W or S+W Long. Revolvers are available and since the 32 Long is "so 1930's", no one wants them. Same for the double action 32-20's. There are a number of small framed single shot rifle platforms that can be "32ed" with out much trouble, like the Rem #4, various Stevens and H+R, Winchester and others. There are bolt guns that could be used too and of course there are lever guns that can be altered and some originals floating around. Pretty much anything in 32 RF can be converted to CF rather easily. If I can successfully perform these transformations, almost anyone can.

No need to load these rounds to the level that requires muffs and duct tape to keep your head from exploding. I've had about all the hi pressure 32-20/mags I want out of a revolver. It's much nicer to use a bit of BE or something like that and load them in the 800-850fps range for paper punching and rock splatting. You'd be amazed what they will do at even lower velocity. Honestly, am 85-120 gr bullet will go right through a sheet of paper at 600 fps! Mall Ninja Monthly articles aside, the bullet will not bounce back and put out an eye. Those 90 gr Hornady swaged SWCs work rather nicely too for not a lot of $$$ if you don't want to cast them. OTOH, you can load a 32-20 rifle up into the 2K fps range rather simply and the 32 Long in a rifle wit enough barrel will break 1500 fps with plain old 2400.

You can load them hot and have headaches or you can slow down and enjoy yourself a bit. Give it a try.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
You are a man after my own heart! I shoot my 1905 vintage 32 WCF S&W Target more than any other 32/20. With 3.0 grains of Bullseye, 115 grain rnfp and it has never failed to go through both sides of a piece of paper!
 

Rally Hess

Well-Known Member
Good post Brett4207, couldn't agree more.
When I first got a .32 mag I tried to go fast. Rude bark and poor accuracy. Having way more fun slowing down and still does the job.
 

Harry O-1

Member
Missionary: I did a lot of measuring when I was thinking of doing the "modern" 41LC thing. I measured a K-frame S&W in .357 Magnum and found out the minimum thickness I figured I needed for the thinnest part of the cylinder. Then I measured the outside of an L-frame S&W cylinder, how much cylinder would thin bored out to 41LC, and subtracted the bolt notch since it is directly over the thinnest part of the cylinder. I don't remember the number, but it was way too thin to work. I measured a 41-frame Colt and did the same calculations. Because the notch is offset in the Colt, I believe it would work (this was before I corresponded with Gene Crum and found out he did it). I do not have a Dan Wesson (or know someone who had one) so I did not measure it. You could do the same calculations, however.
 

Missionary

Well-Known Member
Sounds like a good plan. I am thinking the DW 357 cylinder also has the offset bolt lock. But I maybe thinking of the large frame models as that is how they are made. It will all take place when I get north again in June. Have to take some looks at some 15-2 DW's for sale on GB. Some one is sooner or later going to post a photo in an add that gives the right view.
 
Bret4207...I nominate you as having scribed the best post of the year....so far!

The .32 ACP, S&W and the Long are so very useful and flexible. In a pinch the ACP can be fired in the Long, Mag and the .327. The S&W and Long will, also in case of emergency, fire in the .32-20 and the 7.62 Nagant revolver.

I have been loading (thanx to Ed Harris advice) my .32 ACP, 7.62 Tokarev and 7.65/.30 Luger with 100 gr FN intended for the Long and NP.

My next move will be to purchase one of the Accurate Molds #134D for the .32 Long, as per Ed's article in the recent Fouling Shot magazine. A heavy for caliber bullet like this fascinates me. Not certain of its niche in my life, but whatever it is, it would do it well.
 

Missionary

Well-Known Member
Good morning
As far as my shooting has gone "heavy for caliber" is the place to begin. That is how the old calibers were started and with good reason. A brick does not have to be thrown hard to cause severe results.
Mike in Peru
 

John

Active Member
I have a 32 Pre regulation police that gets fed 90 gr Lee and 2.5 gr Red Dot. It is one of the most accurate handguns I own. It will reliably kill rabbits and paper and I am OK with that. The 32 SSM is a 5 1/2" old adjustable sighted model. I get good groups with it and consider it a small game/varmit gun done to perfection. I shoot from the 90 gr Lee swec to 3118 in weight, RCBS 98 gr swc is the most accurate. As with all my rugers the grips are the key to good shooting and the originals don't stay on long. 327 Fed is served by a 4" Charter Arms Target patriot. I got it on gunbroker after the factory announced it had been discontinued and got a great deal. Accuracy it doesn't meet the standards of the other two and may go down the road later. It's light and handy, built on the Bulldog frame but just doesn't speak to me much anymore.
Beagle wrote up a great read on the 32 H&R http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/t...ecific-articles/215-cast-in-the-32-h-r-magnum.
Ken Waters wrote on the 32-20 some information that anyone loading small cartridges should read and understand in his Pet Loads.
 

Dale53

Active Member
John;
Thanks for the link to Beagle's article. I found it quite useful. It's interesting how many of us like the RCBS-98gr. SWC (mine is NOE's version that I am just starting to work with).

Dale53
 

Josh

Well-Known Member
I have been playing with an equivalent to the 32/20 and 327 Mag, it was designed by Ed Bagdley (BadgerEd) and is simply a 38 Spc necked down with 30 mauser dies. I have worked this from 32 ACP loads up to 7.62x39.