308, subsonic, suppressed, cast bullet tests.

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freebullet

Guest
Just 150gr -the check. It performed well through the whole work up 4.5-6.5 gr tg. The data was for 170 gr boolits but, didn't show any pressure signs at the top.
It can get peaky but, is very consistent in its own range. It's my top velocity performer in 380. It's been working well in 454 cases 300gr &9gr. Whatever the results they are usually very consistent with tg.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
titegroup is famous for that, it don't like to be squeezed. [I won't use it in a 9mm]
I do think it is a great powder in wide open spaces though, and is not very position sensitive.
i even worked up a light shot shell load with the stuff.
I thought I was down to less than 2 lbs, but cleaning the gun room up revealed another 16 very dusty pounds of the stuff.
 
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freebullet

Guest
Just wanted to add a couple more details on the test I'd did. I've noticed in general tg has a narrow loading window. I always double check my figures when extrapolating data for tg. Normally do it against any data for that powder. B'eye is another where I make sure it really really makes sense.

With the lower charges it delivered titegroups. At 6.2 they started opening at 6.5 they were patterns. That's the thing with tg. Normally you lose titegroups just before you learn it's peaky.

I wanted to stick with the 5.5 gr loads because the groups were tiny but, the wife said it was to light. It was 950ish and really hush. Since 6gr for about 1100fps holds moa at 50 her wish was my command.
 

Paul

Member
titegroup is famous for that, it don't like to be squeezed. [I won't use it in a 9mm]
I do think it is a great powder in wide open spaces though, and is not very position sensitive.
i even worked up a light shot shell load with the stuff.
I thought I was down to less than 2 lbs, but cleaning the gun room up revealed another 16 very dusty pounds of the stuff.
How is that even possible? Finding 16 lbs? I think I need to clean up my room now. I did find a pound of bullseye from '91 last week though. I was pretty thrilled with THAT! Ha ha!!
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
It's a fiver thing. He has powder literally coming out of his ears.
It is probably something his kids hid so they could use it instead of him.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I'm a little bit ahead of the curve when it comes to powder [umm] shortages.
I'm in panic mode at 16 lbs. if it's a powder I use a lot.
I forgot about the tite-group [and a jug of clay's] because I just don't use them all that often any more.
I found 10-k wolf brand sr primers tucked in behind some rifles shortly after that.

funny you should mention the kids thing, that is what the s.i.l. is using to load his 40 with.
 

Ian

Notorious member
I'm having a time extrapolating Titegroup data for .308. I figure 5 grains ought to get the 235-grainers out of the barrel and 5.5 ought not blow the rifle up, so I'll just have to strap on the chronograph and see what's what. This subsonic 308 thing is a data black hole for sure, maybe I can shine some light on it, wish me luck.....
 

Ian

Notorious member
Subsonic .308 Winchester w/Titegroup and 235-gr. cast bullets

First load was 5.5 grains Titegroup and bullet seated to 2.860" (edited to correct from 2.660" to 2.860"). Muzzle velocity (MagnetoSpeed) for three was 924, 899, and 892 fps (first shot, fouled cold barrel from Red Dot loads previously fired).

Next I went up to 6.0 grains and fired three with the powder at the front of the case and three with the powder at the back. Average velocity was 946 fps, groups were tighter, and SD was 3 fps. That's right, three fps for ALL SIX combined.

Went up to 6.2 grains to see if groups still hold together, 6.0 was a lot tighter than 5.5. Back in a minute...
 
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freebullet

Guest
Hodgdon lists 168 at 8gr tg for around 1k.

Now your cooking. Those are some impressive #'s. Tg is quickly becoming one of my favs. In certain applications it can't be beat.
 

Ian

Notorious member
I thought about Clays too, but one thing at a time. After this afternoon I found the best load with TG was 6.0 grains. Tried 6.2 and had a few flyers so I went back to 6.0 and here's what I got: Ten rounds total, SD of 10.1 fps total, average velocity 942 fps. First five fired with powder against bullet, last five fired with powder against primer. Of the last five, the three in the middle were all exactly the same at 941 fps. Powder orientation hardly made any difference at all.

I played around with seating depth with some 5.5 grain and 6.2 grain loads before this last string and ended up going to 2.875" in order to help solve a little problem of lead deposits on the outside of the necks.

Specifics are:
Rifle: Savage 111, .308 Winchester with 20" Hog Hunter barrel and ATF Form 1 silencer.
Brass: LC 08 trimmed to 2.015", chamfered, neck turned to cut halfway around the necks, Neck-sized with .335" OD bushing, expanded with .309" RCBS spud.
Primers: Federal standard rifle
Powder: Hodgdon Titegroup, 6.0 grains even.
Bullet: ACE 314-230 plain-base cast of 2 parts clip-on wheelweights, 1 part stick-on wheelweights (mine have high tin content), one part roof lead (6.5 bhn), air cooled and aged a month to ~12 bhn. Sized through a Lee .309" push-through after aging to .3098", bottom two bands lubed with SL-68.1 in a .310" H&I set in a Lyman 45.
COAL: 2.875" which puts the bullet's front band about halfway into the throat.

Put nine in 3/4" at 25 yards with one outside high making it just over an inch, but I'm pretty sure that was me not getting the front bead fully under the bull (shooting into the sun, target in full shadow).
 
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Ian

Notorious member
As a further point of interest, L1A1Rocker stopped by for some of these tests and brought his crew-served precision .308 along, which will stack subsonic 200-grain j-bullets in the same hole with boring regularity. If he stumbles onto this thread I'll let him share specifics of his load.
 
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freebullet

Guest
Open sights?

Sounds like that's working pretty good. I bet there is some real magic accuracy wise between 5.5 & 6 gr even if it's not where you want to be speed wise.
 

Ian

Notorious member
I wanted another 30-40 fps, but I'd have to move to a harder alloy or something to make it work. Probably is a super-sweet spot around 5.8-5.9, but good enough is good enough for now, I have a pig hunt in a few weeks and this one and one of my ARs in BLK with the night vision scope are both going along.

The Savage Hog Hunter comes with elevated "iron" (plastic) sights installed which are perfect for seeing over the 1.5" OD can. I've got a set of Leupold QD rings and bases that used to be on this rifle and will be put back again (removed them for some action work and a barrel change when I converted this rifle to a left-handed receiver). In fact that's a project for this evening while I kill time waiting for some Red Deer jerky to finish drying in the oven. I like the QD ring system because I can just pop off the scope for daytime woods-walking and have a super-fast close range gun....also why I swapped in a left-handed receiver, for fast work in the brush until I can get one of my Marlin 336 .30-30s threaded for a can.
 
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freebullet

Guest
I can't imagine how quiet that is with a can. The 3030 loads I shared are pretty darn quiet without one.

They are just a hoot to shoot. I found the info lacking when trying for the 3030 loads too. Your tests will undoubtedly help many who search it out with time.

Playing with the 600 round batch of 3030 has proven it doesn't have huge swings with temperature changes either. The same load I developed in 98° weather is shooting near the same at 30°.

Good luck on the hunt!
Did you ever dig up the boar skull from the older thread on here? You had burried it for cleaning.
 

Ian

Notorious member
OMG I forgot about that! Yeah, I dug it up a long time ago, back in the late spring I think. It was clean of all tissue except for bits of white "grave wax" which is decomposed fat. That was awesome because I left the eyeballs in it and lots of meat, the parts I hate dealing with the most. The bugs and bacteria in the ground ate every bit of flesh in just a few months. I didn't properly degrease the thing, instead I soaked it in bleach water for a few days and scrubbed it well so it's a splotchy grey. What I should have done is soaked it in acetone or at least paint thinner for a few days to get the grease out of the bone after digging it up and washing off the dirt, so now I'll have to try and re-bleach it with peroxide paste or paint it. Maybe I should update that thread, huh? :oops:
 
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freebullet

Guest
Lol, yeah I happened across it a while back & your mention of going made me think of it.
I've done some deer skull cleaning & a few others. It's interesting study.
I did a turkey skull as my first introduction to maceration. I've found it the best process short of beetles for preserving the delicate details in deer nasal passages and other delicate type stuff. You'd better have a sealed container & a respirator though.
Having done some of that stuff I always look to hear/see more.
 

L1A1Rocker

Active Member
As a further point of interest, L1A1Rocker stopped by for some of these tests and brought his crew-served precision .308 along, which will stack subsonic 200-grain j-bullets in the same hole with boring regularity. If he stumbles onto this thread I'll let him share specifics of his load.

It's got a bit of weight to it. :)


I call her Big Burtha


Military brass with the flash hole drilled out. Winchester Mag. primer. And 16.6gr of 5744 powder topped with Lapua's Sub-Sonic 200gr J-bullet.

Had a great time Ian. Thanks for having me over.