.35 Whelen

[Spindrift]

The CBE360-300 is a very serious looking bullet. Today, I shot my first groups with it. Vihtavouri M150 45 grs (1960fps) produced a 1,3MOA 5- shot group at 100m, from prone. Very good start! 46 grs (2030fps) produced a group with 4 within 1 MOA, and a wild flier.... not so good. Probably a bad bullet, void maybe?
The bullets are coated, nose sized .351, driving bands .360. It was a bit more «jam fit» than I can accept in a hunting round. I’ll have to revisit the basics, check if COL is a bit to long, or if the nose must be sized .350.
Anyway, good start.
I think the 45 grs load is probably the perfectly balanced moose load, combining accuracy, controlled expansion and deep penetration. I will shoot it in water, next.

 

[Ian]

I don't know off the top of my head how many Joules 250 grains is at 2100 fps, but it's a bunch. Keep in mind the flat-nosed .35s lose velocity very rapidly. The RCBS 35-200 leaving the muzzle at 2200 fps is down to 1800 by 100 yards and like 1300 at 200 yards.

 

[Brad]

3461 J

 

[Ian]

Good grief! I was thinking 2500-ish. That's a lot of power on both ends.

 

[Spindrift]

Keep in mind the flat-nosed .35s lose velocity very rapidly.

Absolutely, a good and valid point. This bullet would expand less violently at 100y, or in lung tissue for that matter. Typical shooting distance on my moose hunts is 40-80y, but longer ranges is also possible. It is quite possible this load is very well balanced. It would be interesting to repeat the test at 80y. I’ll see what I can do.

The containers I’m shooting are wind shield fluid containers. As they are widely available for free, they are often used for expansion testing. With the 30-06, a Hornady interlock typically penetrates 5 containers. A core-bonded 180 grs 5 containers, and a bonded 200grs 7 containers.

3461 J

This is definately in the «adult rifle» class. I actually need to repair the wooden rack for my water containers, it split!

 

[Ian]

It's always good to have a known reference to compare. I'm betting the load you have now will go all the way through a moose lengthwise.

 

[RicinYakima]

Years ago, I took the English hunters of the 1800's advice: shoot for the bone structure with solids. Lung shots are only for expanding bullets made after 1900. A 300 grain bullet through both shoulders will not let your game run off.

 

[Spindrift]

Shot the CBE360-300 in water containers today. Distance about 30y. I used the 45 grs Viht N150- load, producing about 1950 fps. Bands sized .360, nose sized .351. It penetrated 7 containers (= very good). GC came of. Retained weight 251 grs, which is 81%. Expanded diameter .50. Probably some of the expanding edge broke of. This should be an effective load on large-bodied game. But I would like to see a bit more expansion. I’ll try to increase the load a couple of grains.


I tried the MP360-200 with Vectan tu-3000 today. This is a single-base, extruded powder in the «4895-class». 41-42 grs worked well. 42 grs gave a 1,3 MOA 5-shot group, at about 2130fps. If I was looking for a deer load, I would have stopped looking

 

[Ian]

Those .35s are something for sure. I think you have a good hunting load there with the 200.

 

[Spindrift]

I tried the slightly hotter load of 47grs N150 with coated CBE 360- 300 today. 2060fps (3960J at the muzzle). Penetrated a truckload of water containers, expanded nicely with retained weight (no GC) 251grs = 81%. Accuracy about 1,5MOA at 100m, on my belly with support on a bag. Even with a supressor, this load is bordering on scary. But I have my moose/boar load

 

[Spindrift]

Shot some MP360-220- HP, range scrap BHN12, at subsonic velocities. .35 Whackout!
I’ve only just started load development with this bullet. With 4 different pistol powders, subsonic threshold was at exactly the same level as 220 grs bullets in .30-06. Case colume is the same, of course. Maybe expansion ratio doesn’t matter with these fast powders?
Vihtavouri 10,2grs, Vectan A0 9,2grs, Universal 8,5grs, Vectan Prima V8,5 grs produced 5- shot groups from 1,3- 1,6 MOA. Good start, lots of stuff to tune here.

 

[wquiles]

Love them ".35 Whackout" loads

 

[popper]

300gr @ 2k fps= 2600'# 0.3 BC just keeps on trucking.

 

[Spindrift]

So far, I have focused on the 200grs+ rifle bullets. Yesterday, I started shooting powder coated handgun bullets. MP360-640 (158grs), Lee 358-158, MP358-165. The Lee is a bevel base, the others plain base. The purpose of these loads is to find a pleasant practice load that doesn’t consume to much components.

I’m trying a new powder. Vectan A0 is a single base flake powder, with a listed burn rate in the 800x/Herco- league. It is one of two powders that the manufacturer claims suitable for cast bullets. I found it to burn very clean. Think it can be very useful!

I tried some loads in the 12-13,5grs range. There were no sensational groups, but I think I can make this work with a little tuning. The MP360-640 made the best group yesterday, with 13,5grs A0. 1,5 MOA 5-shot group isn’t half bad considering it is with a new cartridge, bullet and powder.
Haven’t chronied this excact load, but it should be around 1620fps. A pleasant surprise was the POI. Sights are adjusted to my hunting load; CBE360-300/N150-47grs shoots an inch high at 100m.

PS something weird happened with the colours in my photo. The 5th hole is a bit hard to see, it is in the white patch.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

That MP-360/220 HP is a fun bullet for me with a case full of TrailBoss from my 357Maxi carbine. It runs just under 1000 and shoots nice almost touching 50y groups. I cast these 20:1 so some expansion is still likely.
Lovin the thread as ALL 35's are a passion of mine. I havent had my own Whelen out in a while. Always something else needing something. When I did shoot it it did well with my clone 358009 NOE mold conventional lube. (Back before I powder Coated) IIRC, 4895 and it shot real well! Since PC its bore rider nose is too large. So I picked up a fp Arsenal 270g bullet thats working really well in other calibers. But not yet in my Whelen.


Good show! Thanks for sharing! CW

 

[Spindrift]

I had an opportunity to shoot the whelen from a shooting bench today. Sack in front, sock at the rear
CBE360-300, powder coated. Bands sized .360, nose .351. Really snug fit. 47grs Vihta N150.

In the first 5-shot group, I had a failure-to-feed (last from the mag), where the cartridge got a good squeeze. Inspected the bullet, no apparent damage, shot it (100m). 4 bullets made one ragged hole, the fifth opened up to 2 MOA.
Probably Mr FTF.

The next group, all 5 went into 21mm c-c, which is about 0,7MOA at 100m. Oh, joy!
Load development for this bullet has taken me through a grand total of 1 powder (N150), and 3 loads (45-47grs). Which is a blessing, as recoil does not invite endless series of test shots
I’ve been using a neck tension of 0,001in so far. Which is fine, with target ammo. But I need to try 0,002, so my ammo will better withstand the rigours of the field


The MP358-165 is showing promise as a pleasant practice load, with Vectan A0, at 11grs. Got this horizontal string, about 1,2MOA. Pretty close to something good! Will tune this up.


Edit
PS in the target photo with the CBE360-300, I have written «N140». This is not correct. Should say «N150», like in the text. Sorry. Big fingers, small tablet.

 

[Joshua]

Dialogue Written by Quentin Tarantino
VINCENT
But you know what the funniest thing about Europe is?
JULES
What?
VINCENT
It's the little differences. I mean they got the same stuff over there, we got
Here, but it's just there it’s a little different.
JULES
Examples?
VINCENT
Alright, well you can walk into a movie theatre in Amsterdam and buy a beer.
And I don't mean in a paper cup. I'm talkin' 'bout a glass of beer. And in
Paris, you can buy a beer at MacDonald's. You know what they call a Quarter
Pounder with Cheese in Paris?
JULES
They don't call it a Quarter Pounder with Cheese?
VINCENT
No, man, they got the metric system there, they wouldn't know what a Quarter Pounder is.
JULES
What'd they call it?
VINCENT
They call it Royale with Cheese.
JULES (repeating)
Royale with Cheese. What'd they call Herco?
VINCENT
They call it Vectan AO.

 

[fiver]

chuckle.
now I see why you fit in so good around here.

 

[Spindrift]

I’ve used quite a bit of these French powders now, after they hit the market in Norway a couple of years ago. On the face of it, they work just like any other powder. But if you listen veeery carefully, you’ll notice they don’t go «Bang» like the US powders. They go «Bangue».

 

[Bliksem]

Impressive work with the Whelen. As I'm getting into 35 cal rifles with a 358 Winchester soon I'm reading whatever I can about this caliber. Barrel, dies, mold and even some factory bullets are on the way to me as I write this. As usual, I'm excited!