357 max encore

[Will]

Got the 357 max encore out today. It has a 18” MGM barrel.
I wanted to try something different with it using the NOE 360-180 bullet. I have shot several good groups with this bullet in the past but it never was repeatable. I always attributed it to neck tension.
The ammo I shot today was simply just putting a new primer in fire formed brass, adding AA1680, and seating a 358 bullet by hand. I let the rifle do the seating when the action was closed. The full case of 1680 gives the bullet a firm seat.
So far the testing looks good but I’ll have to see if it’s repeatable. These loads are safe in my gun but I’m not advertising anyone to start here. Groups are 5 shots at 100

 

[Brad]

You got a shooter there. That first load is unreal but the others aren't bad either. The deer better be prepared, you are.

 

[Will]

I’m hoping I can get a little more velocity out of it. I may have to go to H110.
The 26.5gr load is running 1983fps and the 360-180 checked and lubed runs 188gr.

 

[Ben]

I didn't notice anything regarding a crimp ?
I wonder if a mild crimp would help with your " slight " vertical stringing in the 1st target photo ?

Ben

 

[Ben]

I may have to try your loads in my on Ruger # 1, 357 Max.

 

[Ian]

I think he's letting the action seat the bullet to ensure consistent effective LOA, hence no crimp. I'm not sure how well that will work with H110, the only way I've gotten that stuff to light consistently is to have neck tension so tight that the lube grooves were clearly visible on the outside of the brass.

 

[Rick]

I'm a firm believer in sufficient neck tension with slow powder but never have I used or needed that much neck tension, not with H-110 or anything else. Seems that sizing the brass that small would certainly size the bullet down when seating.

In addition to neck tension with slow powder a heavy for caliber bullet is a huge benefit. 1680 is slower than H-110 and in the Max a 180 gr bullet is middle of the road weight wise. It could well pay off to go to a heavier bullet. I've had great success with the RCBS 35 200 in revolver out to 200 meters. Might be worth a try.

 

[Ian]

Very true, Rick. I found with the .44 Magnum that WW+1% tin, water-dropped from the mould, sized .430" for a snug slip-fit in the throats, and using the standard RCBS steel dies worked well together with WW296 and didn't compress the bullets. If I couldn't clearly see the lube grooves through the brass, accuracy suffered and often there were clearly detectable hang-fires, which scared the hell out of me. I much preferred 2400 powder, a much softer bullet, and a lot less tension, but accuracy was my only requirement, not energy downrange.

 

[Rick]

In competition trying to hit a 200 meter shoot-off target the size of a pack cigs with an open sighted revolver accuracy was also my top concern. Possibly your accuracy problem could be caused by inconsistent brass thus needing excess neck tension to compensate. How old is/was the brass? On full size targets 200 meter momentum on 55 pound targets was a concern also but still had to hit it or momentum didn't mean much, never was able to move the berm.

 

[Ian]

Several kinds of brass, Rick, with two or three firings on each. Federal and RP if I remember right, it's been quite a few years. I first tried a larger than normal expander, giving my usual preferred .002" neck tension, which proved to not be nearly enough for the WW296. Using the standard dies and harder bullets I was getting about twice that amount of tension and the powder lit mo'betta, even allowing good ignition and better groups when stepping down to Federal standard pistol primers.

 

[Rick]

Two different routes to the same destination I guess. The important part is that your happy with your results and that it worked out well for you. One difference for me was switching to the RCBS Cowboy dies for less case sizing but I guess we both arrived where we needed to be. Seems regardless of how we got there we agree that sufficient and uniform neck tension is critical.

 

[Ian]

I was happy with my results when I moved away from WW296, it just wasn't what I needed for what I was doing.

The only reason I mentioned any of this was Will was essentially not resizing his brass with the 1680 and I doubt that same procedure will work very well with WW296/H-110.

 

[Rick]

Went back and re-read the OP. I think your right, no crimp and no sizing it seems if he is seating bullets by hand. I'm surprised it worked as well as it did with 1680, also a ball powder and even slower than H-110. No mention of which primer either.

I've used very little 296 but from what I have done with it I couldn't tell a lick of difference between it and H-110 so I just stuck with H-110. I have heard many times that 296 is more temperature sensitive than H-110. Is that true? I have no idea, maybe, maybe not.

 

[gman]

I’ve always read that 1680 is a very good powder for the Max. My shooting is with the Ruger SRM’s only so I’ve always stuck with 4227. The 360-180 RF is a good bullet for my Ruger’s. Not to be confused with the 360-180 WFN both NOE molds. The RF has two crimp grooves. If not mistaken it’s the old BRP copy.

 

[quicksylver]

you Guys are KILLING Me..WHY Do I bother with "Rifles"..?? Good Shooting!!Great Actually..Dan

 

[Will]

I didn't notice anything regarding a crimp ?
I wonder if a mild crimp would help with your " slight " vertical stringing in the 1st target photo ?

Ben

Ben I was just trying this out with no crimp. Some of my earlier test showed the crimp to be necessary using certain powders.

I will add this advice on 357 maximum. Use Remington 7 1/2 primers. I couldn’t get my rifle to shoot good at all until I started using the rem 7 1/2 primers.

I plan to try this with the 35-200 bullet soon. I think the only reason not crimping works in this situation is the case is full of 1680. The bullet is sitting on powder before the rifle finishes seating it. In my experience AA1680 like some compression.

 

[Ben]

I will add this advice on 357 maximum. Use Remington 7 1/2 primers. I couldn’t get my rifle to shoot good at all until I started using the rem 7 1/2 primers.

I plan to buy some Rem. 7 1/2's tomorrow.

Ben

 

[gman]

Remington 7.5’s are all I use for the Max.

 

[Will]

I have at least 1200rds through my max using H110,AA1680, and 300MP. My best groups with all of those powders has been with remington 7 1/2’s

And if I had to pick just one powder it would be AA1680 all the way.

 

[John]

Did you get accuracy with 300 MP? My Handi rechamber does it's best with 296/110.