.38 Special sizing die aggravation...

[Ian]

I have six .38 Special sixing dies and they ALL are awful.

Two Lee carbide dies both size .374" on the outside which gives. 352" on the ID where the bullet goes. Do we REALLY need .006" of neck tension for a revolver?

1966 RCBS die needed a polish, did that and it sizes .378" tapering to .375".....AND THEN STEPS TO .371"!!! .349" Neck ID. If I only put the case in until the mouth is at the step, brass fired in sloppy chambers won't meet spec.

1976 RCBS die also has a step and I get .378X.372".

1991 die that I bought new and had rusted due to long storage after using RCBS case lube 2 got pulled out and given a thorough polish from 320 through 1500 and then rouged. It came out really nice and is slick as a whistle. No step. Tapers from .376" to .373", giving .354" ID. Wish it was .379X.375", it would be perfect. I've been messing with this for four hours and am NOT in the mood to spend the rest of the night polishing this thing out, although at this point that is my only option usingbwhat I got. If I do that, I won't have to make another Lee-style PTE spud that is long enough and the right size to expand the over-worked cases so they don't crush my bullets.

My Lee .38 Super carbide die makes the cases a nice .378" the whole length.....but a .3585" bullet is a slip fit.

GRRRRR.

 

[Brad]

Make one.
I did that for 45 Colt. Only sizes the portion the bullet occupies. Make it whatever size you want.
I made mine so it uses an RCBS decamping rod.

 

[Ian]

Did you use 1144 stress-proof rod?

 

[Brad]

I did. I polished it pretty well but only to 600 grit. I haven’t used lube on cases yet.
I may remake it, neck tension is .001+ short of what I was looking for. Then again, so far the gun hasn’t cared.

 

[RicinYakima]

I fell your pain, brother! I just went to .360" bullets and used my Lee 38 Super die.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I was just loading 357 tonight and my RCBS dies do ablout same. But I use a Mdie and it works well. Yea Its working the brass allot more then needed. But I cannot remember the last 38/357 Brass that has failed on me... im sure some Range brass has seen 10+ loadings. So working it dosent seem a problem.
CW

 

[Brad]

I used the “heavy duty” RCBS decal rod, uses 1/4-28 threads.
I drilled undersized for what I wanted to leave material for boring but large enough for the unthreaded portion of the rod to enter.
Bore to .002 under and polish to final size. Make sure to give a good entry taper with a countersink so cases enter easily.
I made a nut for the top of the die to hold the recap rod securely. Notice that I made it pretty tall to help keep the rod straight And keep the pin on center.

 

[fiver]

your pin is crooked.

 

[Brad]

Shhhhh, my cases don’t know that.

 

[Ian]

I decided to hone it out. Finally had to get after it with 120-grit to make any headway. Two hours later I hit my marks (used minus pin gauges) and polished it up again. Of course I didn't get all the coarse scratches out because dim flashlight so it's not as good as the first time polishing out the rust, but it will do. I get .379 at the bottom, .376 in the middle, and .374 at the top. With military brass that still puts the ID at .353" but imagine what it was before. With thin commercial I'm at .356". Plenty good.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I feel your pain. Because I load handgun ammo on a progressive press; carbide sizer dies are the norm for me. That means I'm pretty much stuck with what the manufacturer thinks it should be. I suppose I could use steel dies and lube the casings but that's an unlikely path for me.
While the die ID is mostly out of my control the expander allows for some adjustment.
With a single stage press the expander can be a Lyman "M" die or some clone. The replaceable expander spud can be customized within reason.
On the Dillon, the powder funnel (powder through expander) needs to be custom made. There's guy on the Castboolits forum that makes Dillon powder funnels and does excellent work.

With the proper expander and a sort of close die body, I can get to where I need to be.

 

[Bisley]

I finally used the .38 Super steel dies I had on hand. For the amount of shooting I do, I can polish the sizing with crocus cloth wrapped around a nail or long- handled tweezers if they start to scratch cases. I get good neck tension that way.

 

[Outpost75]

I use the steel RCBS Cowboy die set for the .38 S&W with as-cast and unsized .360-.362 bullets lubricated with Lee Liquid Alox, and SEPARATELY crimp using the Redding Profile Crimp Die to reduce bullet diameter as-needed by gentle compression inside the case. The Redding Profile Crimp die does not excessively size loaded rounds or deform bullets with excessive crimp like the Lee Factory Crimp does.

With the steel die, of course, you need to have clean and lightly lubricated brass. I use ordinary mineral oil USP on an un-inked stamp pad, very little is necessary and the oil wipes clean with a baby diaper.

 

[Charles Graff]

Your older RCBS steel dies are typical of the breed, with a slight taper and then a smaller step to be expanded for the bullet. 38 Special sizing dies of other makes, but the same vintage do the same. The Lyman (310) and Belding and Mull neck sizing dies squeeze the necks to about the same size or smaller. I just expand the necks .357 or .358 depending and go whistling down the road. So we are faced with a choice, use a carbide die that sizes the body more than we like, or a vintage die that sizes the neck more than we like. They present no problems for me. USGI cases in 38 SpecIal are special needs children. They vary quite a bit in rim thickness as well as thicker castewalls. I polish my steel dies in the lathe chuck with a metal polish on a paper shop towel wrapped about a over size bore mop in the taILstock chuck. I could use some emery paper and enlarge the necks, but I don't bother. I have so many 38 Spl cases that a split neck every once in a while is no big issue.

 

[CZ93X62]

I must have lucked out, or something. My 38/357 RCBS T/C sizing die produces .379" cases. It is dated "77", and has processed many thousands of 38 Special and 357 Magnum cases since I bought it in 1978. My 44 Spc/Mag, 45 ACP, and 45 Colt T/C sizers GROSSLY under-size my cases, and have been retired/re-purposed as needed. 44 Mag and 45 Colt use steel dies now and behave properly, the 45 Colt T/C die does reasonably well on 45 ACP and Auto Rim with a .469" finished diameter.

 

[JWFilips]

Not the 38 Special but my wife's S&W Model 32 Terrier ( 38 S&W) needs a .362"+ bullet Really going to over work the brass if you by a 38 S&W die set ...any brand. Buckshot caught up to me before I wasted money and told me to buy the Lee 9MM Makarov die set instead of a 38 S&W
Works great! But I did get a special M Die nib made up to give me .363" x 361" for expanding the cases.
Along the way I found a cheap Lee 38 S&W die set used on E-bay bought that & that is what I use to size my 38 special and 357 Mag brass with
And I do have custom M die nibs to expand the cases afterwards to give nice tension but not over work the brass.
There were a number of guys across the street at that other site years ago which made fine custom M die nibs as well as the style that NOE sells to fit the Lee universal expanding die body

 

[CZ93X62]

That Buckshot character. One of us plagiarized that 9mm Mak-for-38 S&W sizing idea from the other, we were both messing around with 38 S&W about the same time. Just know that throat and groove diameters in 38 S&W are poetic; Colt PP is .359", S&W RegPol is .361", S&W M&P and Webley-Enfield (38/200s) run .363". The RCBS Makarov expander spud is .3615", so it does OK with the .363" NEI #169A castings in the large-frame models; I resort to the two expander spuds in the RCBS 38 S&W Cowboy Die set for the small-frame critters. Amalgamation works; you should see what I cobble together for the 7.62 x 38R. THAT is a real dumpster fire, tooling-wise.

 

[JWFilips]

When it comes to expander spuds I would rather design my own which I have you near all my calibers and find someone with the knowledge to turn them the sizes I want some have done the M-die style ( a lot less material involved ( heck I have even made three or four using a drill press to turn the diam's with fine files and emory cloth)
Some guys like to have a bigger mass to work with and make the bulkier Lee Style! Al versions work for me as long as the hit the numbers I want.
I think between Custom expander nubs and custom Sizer dies these are the most custom Items I have on my loading Bench ( and I do have a lot of them)

 

[Charles Graff]

Back in the day when orphan 310 dies were available for a few bucks, I bought about 25 310 expanders. I have a box full of them. In that box I can find just about any size expander a fellow could want. Kinda like my grandmothers old button box. You can dig around in it and come up with a good match for what you need.