44 Mag bullet Testing

[Brad]

Got out to the range today to see how the 44 mag would respond to difference in heat treat temps with a single lot of bullets.
All bullets were cast from an alloy of 5 pounds monotype to 50 pounds range scrap. All were air cooled initially.
Some were left as is, some heat treated to 350 F for an hour and some heat treated to 400 F for an hour.
All loads were new Starline Brass, 18 gr of H110, and a CCI std pistol primer.

This is the first 10, heat treated to 400 F. The large hole is 4 shots.

This is 10 with the 350 F heat treat batch. The single hole in the upper right belongs to the next target over. The core group of 7 is just under 2.75 inches.

This is 10 shot air cooled. The extra hole in the previous target is part of this "group".

I don't know if the air cooled was really that bad or not. I fired about 20 of them on a pop can at 100 yards and did manage to hit it 4 times. I think I need to add a smaller white center to these targets to help me "aim small".

These are two of the bullets from the air cooled group. I couldn't find any bullets from the other groups.

 

[Brad]

I suppose it helps to say that all groups were shot at 100 yards.

 

[Rick]

The soda can was at 100, at what distance where the paper targets?

 

[Brad]

All targets were at 100 yards.

I will be heat treati more to 350, 375, and 400 F and let me age a week or more.

I forgot to heat treat a few with no check so I could test BHn on the base. The HP is large enough that the nose is worthless for hardness testing. I do know the air cooled alloy runs 12-13 BHn.

 

[Rick]

All loads were new Starline Brass, 18 gr of H110, and a CCI small pistol primer.

Small pistol? 44 Mag? What weight bullet?

 

[Brad]

Damg it, I meant std pistol. CCI large pistol, not magnum.
This is a 300 gr bullet. Sized to .4315, a snug fit in the throats. Seated long so the bullet is resting in the cylinder throat at ignition.
I didn't take the Chrony as I needed to get home pretty quick. I would imagine it runs in the 1250 fps range.
I want to change targets for this. The black is too large and I find it difficult to center the crosshairs. I will likely add a 2.5 to 3 inch white circle to the center of each bull, that would give me a better aim point.

 

[Rick]

Use a 1 inch white dot, you have a scope on it right?

According to Hodgdon online your 18 gr of H-110 is too light. They list 18.0 gr (35,100 CUP) to 19.0 gr (38,800 CUP) with a 300 gr jacketed. 325 gr cast start charge is 20.0 gr at 1264 fps and 30,800 CUP. For a 330 gr cast 19.0 gr @ 1239 fps and 30,200 CUP. For a 355 gr cast 17.5 gr 1168 fps and 29,300 CUP. All of these are low pressure for the 44m. With the 330 gr bullet and 20.8 gr H-110 at 38,800 CUP. I've never had success with reduced loads of H-110. The cast bullet will not generate the same pressures that jacketed does and H-110 does not work well without the pressure for it to burn well/properly.

 

[Brad]

I can easily bump up the charge. I will say the cases aren't showing soot down the sides much, this tells me pressure is certainly up there.
I may just load some at 18, 19, and 20 and see what the Chrony says. I'm a pretty firm beleiver that if I get velocities similar to the load manual then I probably have similar pressures too.

A 1 inch white dot is possible but yikes, no room for my wobbles!

I'm using a leather bunny ear bag to rest the frame on. I'm resting my elbows on the bench, the butt is held by nothing but my hands.
Would I be better to have a lower rest so my wrists are resting on a bag? Everything I have read says to keep the butt off any sort of rest.

I will say it is pretty fun to be able to shoot at a pop can at 100 yards and have a good chance of hitting it.

 

[Rick]

Wobbles are not permitted!

Butt resting not permitted!

I use a rifle front rest and rest my forearms on a soft sandbag but whatever works for you that eliminates wobbling AND gives you exactly the same recoil (follow through) on every shot.

 

[Brad]

I was using something taller in front but I felt it increased the wobbles. Getting lower helps but made it akward to see thru the scope.
I need a taller front for comfort overall but need to make a couple bags to rest my forearms on. I have some old jeans I can cut up and fill with sand easily enough.

I think having a rest set up properly will held a bunch to reduce wobbles. Just need to get it figured out.

 

[freebullet]

Bench resting a pistol is a unique process. What works for one gun or person may not for the next, one thing I've found consistent is resting the frame right in front of the trigger guard works best most times.

Thanks for sharing your results.

 

[Brad]

Got out again today. All loads fired at 100 yards. Starline brass, CCI 300 primers. All bullets are air cooled.

The chronograph got some use today. It was informational to say the least.

20 gr H110

20.5 gr H110

21 gr H110

The velocities are as follows

20 gr H110 1134 fps, SD of 36
20.5 gr H110 1155 fps, SD of 34
21 gr H110 1179 fps, SD of 14

The 21 gr H110 group was the one with the smallest amount of vertical dispersion. It did have a bit more horizontal but some of that was due to increasing wind from left to right.

I did have problems with a marauding Diet coke can. It was easily handled with a few well placed shots.

Next trip out will be with increasing charges of H110, most likely 21, 21.5, and 22 gr. I will also be heat treating more bullets as these are showing more skid that I want. Once I get the bullets i recovered washed up and photographed I will get them up. Plan is to heat treat them to 400 F for a full hour and then quench. I do need to get my butt in the garage and cast a bunch more, they seem to get used up pretty quickly.

 

[Ian]

Glad you were sufficiently armed to handle that Coke can, those things can be rabid. It's fun shooting a revolver at decent range, isn't it? 44Man got me to doing that years ago and it really opened my eyes.

 

[Brad]

A year ago I wouldn't have believed this all possible for me. Now I have a desire to keep working to shrink groups.
Rick is a serious task master on this stuff.

 

[Brad]

230 more were cast this afternoon. They have been heat treated to 400, quenched, and sized thru a Lee push thru sizer to .432. I still need to let the HP cavities totally dry then I will check, lube, and size to .4315 in the Star.

 

[Rick]

230 more were cast this afternoon. They have been heat treated to 400, quenched, and sized thru a Lee push thru sizer to .432. I still need to let the HP cavities totally dry then I will check, lube, and size to .4315 in the Star.

Seems a bit backwards. You might try sizing them to .4315" before heat treating and then lube them in the Star with the .432". You will find life much simpler this way.

 

[Brad]

I didn't want to get my Star die wet. Sizing them down a half thou later tonight won't be tough.
It is a bit backwards but hey, I just went for it.

Air cooled they run 13 BHn right now. A couple hours after quenching the heat treated ones are 15 BHn. Should end up about perfect.

 

[Brad]

All are lubed, checked, and sized. Now they get to age a bit.
I need to get more checks, I only have 1500 left and somehow that doesn't seem like many.

 

[Josh]

Brad, send me your address in a PM, I will send off some AL checks for you to test out. It looks like you have a good system going, keep it up, revolver shooting for me is very hard but I am trying to self teach.

 

[Brad]

I'm not a great handgun shooter. This is a challenge for me. I'm learning to pay more attention to things I generally ignored for handgun ammo
Rick has been very helpful and doesn't pull punches. If I do anything dumb he lets me know?