44 Special revolver
- Thread starter Rockydoc
- Start date
Will
Well-Known Member
Winelover
North Central Arkansas
I have the CT laser grip on the 357 LCR. Adequate cushion in the backstrap area. I don't care for revolver grips with finger grooves. Never shot it with the standard LCR grip. I had the LGS swap out the grips from a 38 Special LCR they had in stock. I have CT laser grips on all my CC revolvers. Laserguards on the sub compact semi autos. Great for low light and much better than the minuscule fixed sights that are standard equipment.
hporter
Active Member
Which mold would that be?
I have three different .44 Wadcutter molds and have been thinking of ordering the Arsenal DEWC design to play with. But now you have piqued my curiosity.
Not trying t change anyone's mind about what they want to shoot - just relating an experience - adding some reasonably trustworthy "data" to the pool, even if I am not exact in quantifying some points. The 44 Special has been so much a part of my life that I rarely kept any serious level of records, because I've shot more 44 Special than all others combined, to include rifle. For many years, I remembered it all - it just stayed in my head. The older one gets, the bigger the pile of crap that accumulates in there and you just can't shut out all the BS without filtering it first, so eventually, there's just that much more BS to sort through to find the good stuff. I don't regret not documenting most of this except when sharing it - and I don't regret it that much even then. Most of this will likely ring a bell with most of you anyway.
In spite of everything I may say about 200 (or so)-grain 44 Special bullets, so as not to seem hypocritical, my A-number-one, go-to, no-fail bullet is the 429-421. Not to pay homage to Mr. Keith or to be part of the savvy 44 crowd, but gun after gun, load after load, year after year, that bullet is THE bullet for the 44 Special - at least for me. Sometimes that fact even irks me. I've even tried to get away from it, because at times, it just seemed cliche to use it and expound its "virtue." I still play with lighter bullets in the 44 Special, but if I had to narrow it down to one mould, I'd grab the 429-421 and not let go.
Back when the now discontinued LEE 208 grain WC was the only 44 WC commonly available, I struggled with one of the early 2Cs for years. It was marvelously accurate in the 624, Bulldogs, Rossi M720 and Taurus 44 Specials, BUT it was under-sized and I couldn't get it to cast any bigger than .428" even after having lapped it several times. I did not want to give up on that bullet, because it would shoot 5-shot, one-hole groups at 10 - 15 yards, off-hand and with little emphasis on strict marksmanship protocol, in any one of those guns, for the first cylinder-full, but then just start opening up and leading after that. Frustrating.
The point isn't to belittle LEE's moulds, but to emphasize just how desirable a WC is in a 44 Special - at least in my experience.
One caveat, which I do not find terribly troubling was that the 200 - 220 grain bullets shoot 2" to 3" low at 25 yards. You'll get a 2" group, but it will be significantly lower than the 240s and 250s. Just an observation - not a big deal. The 3" barreled guns tended to show this the most for whatever reason. I also, for whatever reason seemed to have less difficulty finding accurate loads in the 3" guns - like ANYTHING would shoot well in them, while in 4" and 6" guns, I might have to play with the load some (minor) amount to get out of them what I expected. MAYBE I just had lower expectations of the shorter barrels? I never kept records to that degree, just load data and some vague reference to how well a load shot in which gun - and never remember ever penciling anything less than "GOOD" for any 44 Special load.
All that said, if I "step it up" a bit in the Flat Top, I see this POI thing at 50 yards very clearly with a 5.5" barrel as well. Shoots 4" groups at 50 yards (bifocals suck), but 250s and 200s land a good hand-span vertically apart, on the groups' centers. I'm sure most know this is common and why it happens. I'm just restating/verifying that it holds in the case of the 44 Specials - many of which are 3" guns, which many less committed folks won't even bother to shoot at 25 yards or more. "Short," fixed-sight guns seem to be regulated to what we seniors would consider "traditional" bullets weights at "traditional" velocities for the cartridge.
I gave up on that particular mould, the LEE 208 WC, a long time ago, after many years of not wanting to give it up. I switched to the LEE 200 grain RFN (borrowed mould), which shot equally as low, but as accurately as the heavier ones, typically around 2" at 25 yards with the occasional "better" here and there. Still talking 3" guns mostly. Not willing to tempt fate, risking the acquisition of another under-sized LEE mould, I eventually settled on the Arsenal 432-210 RFN in 4C and it has been a marvelous mould and a wonderful 44 Special bullet, replacing the Lyman 429-215, as well as the LEE 208 WC. I requested my mould be .433" and it was bang-on, using my mongrel alloys.
Small sample alert - cylinder throats: All of the Bulldogs I own/have owned, as well as others' Bulldogs I've messed with had .433" throats. One Rossi had .432" - .433" throats, but the other had .428' throats. The 624 had .428" throats and the Taurus revolvers had .433" throats. My first Flat Top 44 Special had .432"+ to .433 throuts, and all the groove diameters were typically "good," at between .430" to .431" typically. My current Flat Top has .432" throats. The 624 showed the barrel stampings on the INSIDE of the barrel, to the point that you probably could have READ them from inside if I'd had a bore scope. Smith did replace the barrel for me.
One last thought - the only time I ever remember using Red Dot in anything is for a friend's 44-40, shooting 200 grain bullets at mild velocities and the 200 (or so)-grain 44 Special bullets. I've used Unique and W23/HP38 much, much more, with great results, but I remember Red Dot being the berries for light 44 Special bullets.
There I go with another long-winded tome... I wonder sometimes if anyone makes it to the end of one of these.
EDIT: Yeah, I know, I can't shut up. I get cranked up when anyone else expresses an interest in the 44 Special. Don't overlook HERCO for the 44 Special. For loads in the "Skeeter Load" realm, I have gotten very good results, which tend to hold at least to FIFTY yards. The 4" groups I mentioned above would probably be 4" groups at a HUNDRED, in someone else's hands, using someone else's eyes. Not saying anyone should switch from Unique to ( a little bit more) Herco, but with how hard things are to find these days - if you find some Herco, it's very useful in the 44 Special.
In spite of everything I may say about 200 (or so)-grain 44 Special bullets, so as not to seem hypocritical, my A-number-one, go-to, no-fail bullet is the 429-421. Not to pay homage to Mr. Keith or to be part of the savvy 44 crowd, but gun after gun, load after load, year after year, that bullet is THE bullet for the 44 Special - at least for me. Sometimes that fact even irks me. I've even tried to get away from it, because at times, it just seemed cliche to use it and expound its "virtue." I still play with lighter bullets in the 44 Special, but if I had to narrow it down to one mould, I'd grab the 429-421 and not let go.
Back when the now discontinued LEE 208 grain WC was the only 44 WC commonly available, I struggled with one of the early 2Cs for years. It was marvelously accurate in the 624, Bulldogs, Rossi M720 and Taurus 44 Specials, BUT it was under-sized and I couldn't get it to cast any bigger than .428" even after having lapped it several times. I did not want to give up on that bullet, because it would shoot 5-shot, one-hole groups at 10 - 15 yards, off-hand and with little emphasis on strict marksmanship protocol, in any one of those guns, for the first cylinder-full, but then just start opening up and leading after that. Frustrating.
The point isn't to belittle LEE's moulds, but to emphasize just how desirable a WC is in a 44 Special - at least in my experience.
One caveat, which I do not find terribly troubling was that the 200 - 220 grain bullets shoot 2" to 3" low at 25 yards. You'll get a 2" group, but it will be significantly lower than the 240s and 250s. Just an observation - not a big deal. The 3" barreled guns tended to show this the most for whatever reason. I also, for whatever reason seemed to have less difficulty finding accurate loads in the 3" guns - like ANYTHING would shoot well in them, while in 4" and 6" guns, I might have to play with the load some (minor) amount to get out of them what I expected. MAYBE I just had lower expectations of the shorter barrels? I never kept records to that degree, just load data and some vague reference to how well a load shot in which gun - and never remember ever penciling anything less than "GOOD" for any 44 Special load.
All that said, if I "step it up" a bit in the Flat Top, I see this POI thing at 50 yards very clearly with a 5.5" barrel as well. Shoots 4" groups at 50 yards (bifocals suck), but 250s and 200s land a good hand-span vertically apart, on the groups' centers. I'm sure most know this is common and why it happens. I'm just restating/verifying that it holds in the case of the 44 Specials - many of which are 3" guns, which many less committed folks won't even bother to shoot at 25 yards or more. "Short," fixed-sight guns seem to be regulated to what we seniors would consider "traditional" bullets weights at "traditional" velocities for the cartridge.
I gave up on that particular mould, the LEE 208 WC, a long time ago, after many years of not wanting to give it up. I switched to the LEE 200 grain RFN (borrowed mould), which shot equally as low, but as accurately as the heavier ones, typically around 2" at 25 yards with the occasional "better" here and there. Still talking 3" guns mostly. Not willing to tempt fate, risking the acquisition of another under-sized LEE mould, I eventually settled on the Arsenal 432-210 RFN in 4C and it has been a marvelous mould and a wonderful 44 Special bullet, replacing the Lyman 429-215, as well as the LEE 208 WC. I requested my mould be .433" and it was bang-on, using my mongrel alloys.
Small sample alert - cylinder throats: All of the Bulldogs I own/have owned, as well as others' Bulldogs I've messed with had .433" throats. One Rossi had .432" - .433" throats, but the other had .428' throats. The 624 had .428" throats and the Taurus revolvers had .433" throats. My first Flat Top 44 Special had .432"+ to .433 throuts, and all the groove diameters were typically "good," at between .430" to .431" typically. My current Flat Top has .432" throats. The 624 showed the barrel stampings on the INSIDE of the barrel, to the point that you probably could have READ them from inside if I'd had a bore scope. Smith did replace the barrel for me.
One last thought - the only time I ever remember using Red Dot in anything is for a friend's 44-40, shooting 200 grain bullets at mild velocities and the 200 (or so)-grain 44 Special bullets. I've used Unique and W23/HP38 much, much more, with great results, but I remember Red Dot being the berries for light 44 Special bullets.
There I go with another long-winded tome... I wonder sometimes if anyone makes it to the end of one of these.
EDIT: Yeah, I know, I can't shut up. I get cranked up when anyone else expresses an interest in the 44 Special. Don't overlook HERCO for the 44 Special. For loads in the "Skeeter Load" realm, I have gotten very good results, which tend to hold at least to FIFTY yards. The 4" groups I mentioned above would probably be 4" groups at a HUNDRED, in someone else's hands, using someone else's eyes. Not saying anyone should switch from Unique to ( a little bit more) Herco, but with how hard things are to find these days - if you find some Herco, it's very useful in the 44 Special.
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Cadillac Jeff
Well-Known Member
I read it all Mr. H
& thank's
don't have a 44 sp---want one tho---- mine are all mag's that I use 8.5 unique in mostly. a 10" ruger sbh a 2.5"ruger rh & a henry BB brass
Jeff
& thank's
don't have a 44 sp---want one tho---- mine are all mag's that I use 8.5 unique in mostly. a 10" ruger sbh a 2.5"ruger rh & a henry BB brass
Jeff
Thank you, Jeff. THAT is why I go on and on. Lots of guys here have them and know what I shared, but for others who haven't had one, it's a tough question to answer - "why not just use a 44 Mag and "Load down?""
Subtle differences which are hard to imagine having such an important impact. Hopefully, someone else will get to "discover" the 'Special in spite of how little sense it makes to have one.
Jeff
Will
Well-Known Member
the bottom left bullet
fiver
Well-Known Member
after all of Jeff's typing up there i gotta throw one more in the pile.
the LEE 240 SWC T/L mold tumble lubed and set on top of a small amount of titegroup is a super accurate, super simple, put a pile of them together quickly mold and load for the 44 special.
it's pretty much been the only time i had anything work the way Mr. Lee says it will.
the LEE 240 SWC T/L mold tumble lubed and set on top of a small amount of titegroup is a super accurate, super simple, put a pile of them together quickly mold and load for the 44 special.
it's pretty much been the only time i had anything work the way Mr. Lee says it will.
Winelover
North Central Arkansas
Yepper, I read it all too. 
Agree, for the most part. Don't care for light for caliber bullets in the 44 Special, either. I'll stick to the 240-250 grain bullets. Especially, for fix sighted handguns. Been loading for near fifty years and never found the need for wadcutters. SWC's and more recently, RNFP's are more than adequate.
As far a powders go, I haven't found one that the 44 Special doesn't like. I tried a lot of them. FWIW, I shoot DAO and 15 yards is my maximum distance for my short barreled (3" or less) 44 Special revolvers. Currently, picking powders, that I have on hand, that will conserve my dwindling supply of Unique. Never had/tried any Herco. Using lots of W231, Winchester's answer to Unique and AA#7. AA#7, a ball powder, meters exceptionally well and is the cleanest burning power I ever tried in the 44 Special. True Blue is claimed to be great in the 44 Special. Have a pound of it, I want to use up. Tried it, nothing special. Didn't care for it in 9mm, either. Others, I've tried, are Red Dot, Bulleye, AA#2, Power Pistol, and 2400.
I keep a large amount of 2400 around for 357's, 44 Mags and 45 LC. If I could have only one powder, hands down it would be 2400. My woods walking around 44 Special loads all use 2400 powder. YMMV.
Agree, for the most part. Don't care for light for caliber bullets in the 44 Special, either. I'll stick to the 240-250 grain bullets. Especially, for fix sighted handguns. Been loading for near fifty years and never found the need for wadcutters. SWC's and more recently, RNFP's are more than adequate. As far a powders go, I haven't found one that the 44 Special doesn't like. I tried a lot of them. FWIW, I shoot DAO and 15 yards is my maximum distance for my short barreled (3" or less) 44 Special revolvers. Currently, picking powders, that I have on hand, that will conserve my dwindling supply of Unique. Never had/tried any Herco. Using lots of W231, Winchester's answer to Unique and AA#7. AA#7, a ball powder, meters exceptionally well and is the cleanest burning power I ever tried in the 44 Special. True Blue is claimed to be great in the 44 Special. Have a pound of it, I want to use up. Tried it, nothing special. Didn't care for it in 9mm, either. Others, I've tried, are Red Dot, Bulleye, AA#2, Power Pistol, and 2400.
I keep a large amount of 2400 around for 357's, 44 Mags and 45 LC. If I could have only one powder, hands down it would be 2400. My woods walking around 44 Special loads all use 2400 powder. YMMV.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Good post Jeff. I have also thought a lighter 44 Special bullet is what I wanted, but I can't seem to locate just what I want. In truth, the 429421 works in all my 44's, which is only 3- a Lew Horton 24-3 3", the blue one, I think the 6 series are all stainless, a Charter BD and a Rossi Puma Mag. Honestly, 6.5 Unique and the 429421 does everything I've asked of it so far. I've put down cattle and horses, shot varmints and killed a lot of rocks and dirt clods. I've upped the powder to 7.5 but that tended to torque the BD so the bullets hit way to the left for me. 6.5 is pretty well centered and the elevation is about right. I'm not scared to carry the BD out in the fields and woods, the Smith I guard like it's the Holy Grail.
I keep thinking I want a lighter bullet, but in the end I already have a 4 cav 429421. It simply works.
I keep thinking I want a lighter bullet, but in the end I already have a 4 cav 429421. It simply works.
Wheelgunner57
New Member
That 3" is mighty fine and a perfect practical revolver. I have a 6-1/2" 24-3 and i treat it as a target piece. I also have a 7-1/2" SBH . You can shoot medium loads in a .44 mag. One of my favorites is 12 grains of HS 6 under a 240 grain bullet. In the 24-3 i use mostly unique.
Charles Graff
Moderator Emeritus
Over the years I had owned a dozen or so 44 Specials, but never found anything special about them. Hence they have all been sold down river save one, I keep for sentimental reasons.
The 44 Mag is a truly wonderful round that will give sterling accuracy all up and down the power curve from powder puff to full snort loads. I do not find an N Frame Smith or a New Model Ruger burdensome to tote around with me. So fooey I say, to those who want something smaller in 44 Special.
If weight really is a problem, just get a 38 Special, it will do 95% of what we really want a handgun to do. It is a very portable, accurate, versatile and useful revolver and ammo combo.
Oh yes, I don't give a fig what Skeeter thought or did. I do my own thinking on the matter at hand. Humbug!
Now this is a 44!!! .430 barrel groove and .430 cylinder throats. Most accurate revolver I have ever owned or shot. It has the weight out front, so the front sight does not dance around like a dandelion in the wind. When the hammer drops all is steady until the kaboom. click on it!
For loads, I use an old El Paso made NEI near perfect clone of the original Keith bullet sized .430. I use 10/Unique for about 1,100 fps and for powder puff loads use the same bullet over 5/BE, all loads in magnum cases. The stiffer load will kill anything that walks, crawls and breathes in Texas and is easy on the hand and the gun.
Now there you have it boys, the straight skinny on the 44!
"Oh, the next time I saw Darlin Cory, she was standin by the sea. She had a 44 gun strapped to her body and a banjo on her knee."
The 44 Mag is a truly wonderful round that will give sterling accuracy all up and down the power curve from powder puff to full snort loads. I do not find an N Frame Smith or a New Model Ruger burdensome to tote around with me. So fooey I say, to those who want something smaller in 44 Special.
If weight really is a problem, just get a 38 Special, it will do 95% of what we really want a handgun to do. It is a very portable, accurate, versatile and useful revolver and ammo combo.
Oh yes, I don't give a fig what Skeeter thought or did. I do my own thinking on the matter at hand. Humbug!
Now this is a 44!!! .430 barrel groove and .430 cylinder throats. Most accurate revolver I have ever owned or shot. It has the weight out front, so the front sight does not dance around like a dandelion in the wind. When the hammer drops all is steady until the kaboom. click on it!
For loads, I use an old El Paso made NEI near perfect clone of the original Keith bullet sized .430. I use 10/Unique for about 1,100 fps and for powder puff loads use the same bullet over 5/BE, all loads in magnum cases. The stiffer load will kill anything that walks, crawls and breathes in Texas and is easy on the hand and the gun.
Now there you have it boys, the straight skinny on the 44!
"Oh, the next time I saw Darlin Cory, she was standin by the sea. She had a 44 gun strapped to her body and a banjo on her knee."
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Why have a 38 Special when there's the 357 Mag?
L Ross
Well-Known Member
Compelling post. I now feel less bad about letting my only .44 spl. slip away. It was a Bisley Flattop 4 5/8" and I have my freshly rebuilt 1975 Super Black Hawk with the new 4 5/8" bbl. There's also a very early .44 mag. flattop lounging insouciantly in the safe, completely disregarding her neglect. One of these days I may have her 6 1/2" proboscis given a rhino job to 4 5/8". Yeah yeah, collectors will beshat themselves, what do I care?
The temperatures are poised to do a dramatic rise starting Sunday and continuing into the extended forecast. I believe I shall resume shooting.
I had one of those in 5.5" and never shot it. It just seemed antithetical to the notion of a "smaller, lighter" 44. It was a beast. Beautiful, but a beast. It would have easily been comfortable shooting full-house 44 Mags, had it been so-chambered.
My first 44 Special was a 3" Charter Bulldog, and I carried and shot the snot out of that thing - and several others over the years. When Taurus and Rossi came out with their 5-shot 44 Specials, I tried them and even THEY seemed heavy and bulky to me. I say this so that others understand that my personal preference regarding weight and bulk probably seems irrational, but it IS my personal preference.
To Charles' point, regarding whether "weight really is a problem," I actually concealed-carry a 5-shot 357 these days, loaded to 38 Spl. +P+ levels.
I reserve my 44 Special components to a couple "mid-frame" Ruger SAs.