45-70 bullet mold suggestions

[springfield17074]

Thanks so much for all the suggestions, help and opinions. I think the Lyman 457122 will be my decision. I may still order the lee 459-405 HP at some point but the Lyman should be my first purchase. I haven’t been casting long (45 acp), some days I feel like I haven’t learned anything. But I’m committed to figure this out, it will not happen without actually doing it.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

I shoot a Lyman 458124 with AAC-5744 in my Pedersoli Sharps 45-90. This combo has served me very well.

 

[springfield17074]

I had a friend who uses a aac-5744, I'll have to ask him if I can borrow it. That shouldn't be a problem, hell I've given him half his reloading equipment for his pistol reloading equipment. He had only been reloading for his rifle's. He has a sharps "type', not sure of the manufacture, that he loves. He has been a good source of info about casting. It was really him, he got me hooked to try it on my own.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

Double check you data for 5744. In older Lyman manuals the loads are excessive for 45-70 and 45-90. I have shot many hundreds of rounds with that bullet and powder. This is certainly not to the exclusions of all others. You have a world of information in this thread from shooters. The old Sharps type rifles are great to shoot. I read of people wanting to get near 458 Magnum velocity from these 45 caliber guns. I'd like to be a fly on the wall when the first rounds goes down range for those guys,

 

[RBHarter]

Double check you data for 5744. In older Lyman manuals the loads are excessive for 45-70 and 45-90. I have shot many hundreds of rounds with that bullet and powder. This is certainly not to the exclusions of all others. You have a world of information in this thread from shooters. The old Sharps type rifles are great to shoot. I read of people wanting to get near 458 Magnum velocity from these 45 caliber guns. I'd like to be a fly on the wall when the first rounds goes down range for those guys,

Lyman 47,48,&50 list data for the 45-100,110,120 with a 405 SP that is separated from 458 WM by only 100 fps MV and 10" of barrel . A 45-90 in a #1 could be right there pretty easy I would think too .
Having worked with an 1895G some I can't say the recoil isn't worth it .

 

[Mowgli Terry]

I was speaking of reasonable loads in a replica Sharps. Recoil with normal loads in these guns is stiff. Loaded like the 458 results would be significantly worse. A modern gun with straight stock would not be so bad. The loads I was suggesting are moderate and accurate. If I wanted a 458 it would be a modern gun preferably a Number One. OP was loading for a relatively light gun. I have loaded 45-110 in a C. Sharps long range hunting and target rifle. It is a big gun that that speaks when it goes off with normal loads. No thanks for a traditionally shaped rifle in 458 magnum level loads.

For AAC 5744 I'd suggest using the most recent Western Powder data. Most data now has two or three levels of loads. Make sure you know where you are at. (bad grammar).

 

[StrawHat]

For 5744, I use the 40% rule. 40% of the black powder load. So for a 50-70, I would use 28 grains of 5744.

Kevin

 

[Mowgli Terry]

Thanks, an interesting idea. I've not heard that before.

 

[RicinYakima]

It works very well for IMR4198 and IMR4895. Depends upon what vintage of 5744 you have, but it will be close. I ended up with 26 grains in the 50/70 and 26 in the 45/50 with 500 grain bullets to make issue velocity. But that was the second generation of 5744. Latest is slower yet.

 

[Axelwik]

For my black powder antique Trapdoor loads I use the 457125 and 457124 molds. For smokeless in the Marlin 1895 and TC Encore it's either a Saeco No. 17 gas check or an NOE RNFP with a wide meplat (or HP with the pins installed) of about the same weight.

The 457125 is very accurate in the trapdoor, I think due to the fact that the nose of the bullet slightly engraves into the rifling when chambered, but after a few shots they don't chamber easily due to BP fouling. The 457124 is almost as accurate and doesn't have the fouling problem. Maybe I'll try the '125 with smokeless. The Saeco and NOE loads are accurate enough for hunting - might be able to develop a better load for them, but they work for my purposes. They're both gas check designs. The Saeco feeds better in the lever gun than the NOE.

 

[Ian]

Late to the party but I wouldn't waste money on a Lyman bullet mould right now, they cast habitually undersized. A 45/70 will likely enjoy .460" bullets but you need a chamber cast to know for sure. I'd stick with the NOE or Accurate moulds around 400 grains that have been suggested. Unique or 2400 for mild loads and Reloder 7, H322, or 3031 for top-end Trapdoor loads. 2400 is probably the best all-around choice.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

My last trapdoor had a groove diameter of 462.

 

[Axelwik]

My last trapdoor had a groove diameter of 462.

I size mine to 0.459" and they're accurate with no leading. Have never slugged my trapdoors, but use a very soft alloy.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

It's tough to measure a bore with three lands and grooves.

 

[Ben]

Late to the party but I wouldn't waste money on a Lyman bullet mould right now, they cast habitually undersized.

Truer words have not be spoken ! !

Ben

 

[Mowgli Terry]

Many of my old Lyman Molds are oversized. I'm working on a project new where NOE or similar will be used. With custom molds I have more control over the undertaking. Having to deal with molds that are not right ends up with the tail wagging the dog. Custom molds is where I'm going on the most recent venture. That's with a 1917 Smith&Wesson revolver. The next Trapdoor adventure will be with a custom mold out of the gate. For the Modern stuff, the current Lyman's work very well. Tell me if I'm missing the mark.

 

[USSR]

Custom molds is where I'm going on the most recent venture. That's with a 1917 Smith&Wesson revolver. The next Trapdoor adventure will be with a custom mold out of the gate. For the Modern stuff, the current Lyman's work very well. Tell me if I'm missing the mark.

Highly suggest you deal with Tom at Accurate Molds. The guy and his brass molds are simply amazing. Just received another one from him this week. It's a sickness, I tell ya.

Don

 

[Bret4207]

What is your intended use for that rifle? It is relatively light for a 45-70 so long days at the range may be fatiguing from a recoil standpoint. If punching holes in empty cans and deer is your plan, you may be better served with the 457122, better known as the Gould bullet. It is a 330 grain hollow point and has been an accurate bullet in all of my rifles, when I used the 45-70.

Kevin

In a light rifle like that, I'd also suggest a 3-350 gr design. Even a 405 FN gets a bit vigorous in the lighter rifles if you push it much.

 

[USSR]

I would also suggest you stay away from the heavy bullets. My 45-70 only weighs 7.1 lbs, and I like the 300gr bullets just fine. I had Tom at Accurate make me a mold for this bullet and it shoots great.

Don

 

[Mowgli Terry]

The bullet that work best for me in the last Trapdoor and a Danish Remington was the Lee SC 459-405 HB. This bullet cast from unalloyed lead was .460 (IIRC). I do not recall the lube. Senior stuff.

The TD was .462 and the RB was 464. This Lee bullet gave very good accuracy with this bullet. With decent bore these old rifles will really shoot very well. Any bullet used normally for modern 45 caliber rifles would skid along the top of the lands and keyhole. My two TD's may have been the only two ever made with these oversize groove diameters. Lucky me! The Lyman 457124 in a modern rifle will give on a good day a minute of angle group at 100 yards in my Pedersoli 1874 45-90. Good bullet and a great rifle.