45 hollow point wad cutter 230gr

xsiv4s

Member
Another strange one. It’s a 45cal 230gr wadcutter with a hollow point? Any clue what this was for?
 

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xsiv4s

Member
I did a little more research. It came from Bob Hayley's estate and there are some blog articles that talked about this. he had apparently researched the .455 Webley Man-stopper and decided to recreate it. In 1898 T.W. Webley created it to expand greatly at low velocity and it was used by the British until 1902. They stopped at that time due to the 1899 Hague Declaration which stopped the use of expanding bullets. Bob Hayley made it in 7 calibers and I think I probably have them all. I've made it through 6 boxes from his estate in the last 2 months with about 20 more to go. Books, molds. dies and a little bit of everything else. I'm having my garage wired for 220 this week and I will hopefully have his lead pots up and going again in the next week or two.
 

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
It's the Man-Stopper design. I have one of Lymans 360270 moulds. I've been considering having an upscaled version made for 44 & 45 by Accurate, then send it to Erik for the hollowpoint. Bob Haleys design was simpler, and easier to cast. I believe the original British versions were actually swaged with a hollowbase on one end, and the hollowpoint in the other. This was done to reduce tumbling in (ahem) tissue, and couldn't hurt bullet fit with the early 45 caliber revolver barrels.

Boosted from Wikipedia: .455 Webley Mk III [11.55×19.3mmR]: Introduced in 1898. The famous "Manstopper" bullet intended for police, civilian and colonial use. Essentially, the Mk III was a 218 grain lead "hollowpoint" design, propelled by cordite. The cylindrical bullet had hemispherical hollows at each end—one to seal the barrel, the other to deform on impact. This bullet was soon prohibited for use by the military because it was not compliant with the Hague Convention of 1899. The Mark III was withdrawn from service in 1900 and the Mark II was reintroduced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.455_Webley
 

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xsiv4s

Member
That's my first impression.

The shape and depth of the cavity looks to be a hollow base. I think that's a nose pour mold for a hollow base wadcutter.
Here is a blog article on the maker, as I understand it from several articles I've read, this was his homage to the Manstopper round and the dies were custom made for that purpose.

 

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
Terry Wieland at Handloader, Grays Sporting Journal, and other publications is/was a big fan of Bob Hayley. Bob made a lot of shooting possible for the 19th Century guys, and others. xsiv4s has accurate information, I've seen Bobs Man-Stopper designs, and they look exactly like the pics above. Call them a "modified", or "improved" version of the early 20th Century design. They've been pictured in Handloader magazine a number of times, and Terry even wrung them out to test performance.

 

xsiv4s

Member
I looked through a bunch of boxes last night and found 5 sizes of the custom molds for this shape
 

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358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
A lucky fellow indeed! A lot of Bobs stuff ended up on ebay. I almost bought his .32 Colt HB mould, but was too slow the last time around.

I intended to buy it.
 

xsiv4s

Member
A lucky fellow indeed! A lot of Bobs stuff ended up on ebay. I almost bought his .32 Colt HB mould, but was too slow the last time around.

I intended to buy it.
Sorry about that, I'm "that" guy. I bought a few hundred mold sets, a couple of hundred die sets, and a wide variety of other things. The auction doors opened up at 8:00 am and I walked out at midnight with the auction still going on. I've been going through them for 2 months selling off duplicates and most of the aluminum molds. I haven't even started on any of the truly weird stuff, like everything for reloading 14 Jones, sizing tools for the 14.5x32.5 Austria RF, or dozens of other obscure pieces. The NRA was gifted with most of his firearms collection (Worth millions), but some of the stuff they left behind should be in a museum. I am setting aside a ton of literature, notes, and specialty tooling and at some point, I will try to get it into a firearms museum that wants to display it.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
I read that article and there's no doubt about his talent but there's also no evidence that is a hollow point as opposed to a hollow base.
 

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
I read that article and there's no doubt about his talent but there's also no evidence that is a hollow point as opposed to a hollow base.
The lube grooves are on the wrong end of the bullet for it to be a wadcutter. The grooves are at the square base end of the bullet, not the (slightly) rounded end which also includes the cavity. Though I'm not an authority, I've yet to see a bullet with lube grooves at the nose, but not the base, except for outside lubricated designs like the 32, 38, and 41 Colt designs. The lube grooves would be inside the case with an inside lubricated design, and there is no sign of a step for an outside lubricated design.

That, and I've seen these moulds before, just not all at once.
 

xsiv4s

Member
Well, it’s not a mold but it is about the strangest cartridge I have ever seen. Any ideas? Approximately 2.1” long, .3920 brass diameter and approximately.3585 bullet diameter
 

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RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
It is one of the 1873 series Maynard rifle. They were made as the best target rifles of the 1870's and used world wide as hunting rifles for long range shooting of game.

One of the most popular hunting rounds was the 40/70.
40-70-Maynard-1873.jpg
 
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