50/54? Caliber Original Sharps Rifle with BP Paper Cartridges - Experience/Advice

oscarflytyer

Well-Known Member
50/54? Caliber Original Sharps Rifle with BP Paper Cartridges - Experience/Advice

SO.... LGS/Club I am a member of pinged me tonight. Want me to look at a Sharps Rifle. Lottsa text trading... Sounds like a very old original Sharps in 50 or 54 cal that shoots a paper cartridge. Will know more when I lay eyes on target, but... Guy my age (early 60's) /GF's rifle/wants to shoot it before HE passes... And I am all in to help

I can cast if I can get a mold. GOOD news is, Eras Gone molds is a local guy! I can cast any mold I can get. AND I have plenty of pure lead and Black Powder. Paper and sizing recommendations pls!

SO..... ANYBODY have ANY experience with this particular rifle/mold/paper cartridge? I am WIDE OPEN to any and all advice/experience, etc. I really want to help this guy shoot his GF's antique Sharps!!!! TIA!
 

Missionary

Well-Known Member
Good morning Oscar
There are several models. But look up "slant breach". If that Sharps Carbine is one of those 1st models only shoot Round Ball in it.
No matter what model only use real BP.
I recommend starting with RB as they will give good accuracy and drop any deer at 50 yards.
Get the musket caps... The original nipple is that size.
Test fire a couple to be sure the breech fire "channel" and nipple is open. If no pressure exits the barrel the channel or nipple is clogged.

You do not need paper cartridges. You can get into this after the first fun day.
Ball size. We use .56 as it fits down the fouled chamber . His may take a .55 ?? Check groove diameter as that will be a good start.
Drop in a lubed RB, a 1/4 sheet of TP wadded and follow with 60 grains of 2F BP. Cap and fire.
We generally fire 5 and swab the barrel.
 
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RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Lots of utube stuff on this subject. I just poured loose powder in the chamber and closed the bock and dumped the rest on the ground. But DuPont FF was a buck a pound from surplus stock.
 

hporter

Active Member
I have a replica 1859 Armi Sport Sharps, but I have no knowledge of the originals so can't help you there.

Missionary is correct, the most straight forward path is probably to shoot it with loose powder.

But making the paper cartridges is pretty easy. There are a lot of Youtube videos and websites that show you how to go about it. You can also buy Charlie Hahn paper tubes that work with the Sharps Christmas tree bullet molds. I just use an ordinary wooden dowel as my forming mandrel, and I wrapped it with that Air Conditioning tape (the shiny smooth stuff) to get the OD correct. Drop your bullet in the chamber, push a wooden down down on top of it and mark the dowel with a black sharpie pen at the breech to get the OAL for the cartridge. It is all pretty straight forward.

I just got my hands on the Era's Gone .54 caliber Sharps mold last month as a birthday present. I haven't had a chance to cast with it yet, but I am looking forward to it.

I have 3 different Christmas tree molds - a Moose Mold, a Tennessee Bullet Molds and a Rapine. I also have the Lee Hollow base .54 415 grain Minie (90474) and the .54 caliber 300 grain REAL (90398) bullet. I have shot them all with paper cartridges and the Christmas tree bullets with Charlie Hahn tubes.

As far as sizing and lubing, I picked up a .557 sizing die for my Star that I keep loaded with SPG. I don't worry about sizing them, but filling the lube grooves with the Star uses far less lube than dipping them. And so far, it seems to be enough lube in my carbine length barrel.

I recently bought a Lee .562 round ball mold to play with. I loaded them over the Charlie Hahn cardboard tubes. I haven't had a chance to try them yet, work has been too busy. Here is a thread on this site if you may be interested. https://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/1859-armi-sport-sharps-54-round-ball-loads.8562/

Screen Shot 2022-06-10 at 1.18.35 PM.jpg
Here is my carbine.

Screen Shot 2022-06-10 at 1.18.49 PM.jpg
These are some cartridges I loaded with both homemade paper cartridges and the Charlie Hahn tubes. The ugly one on the bottom is from my first try back in 2014 using lady's hair curling paper tying it to the Christmas tree bullet base and dipping the bullet in SPG. The top two are the Lee REAL and the Minie in my paper cartridges. They all shot well, but I was partial to the results I got with my Tennessee Christmas tree mold which are the center ones in the cardboard tubes. Using the Hahn tubes with the Christmas tree bullet is a cakewalk and easy to throw them together.

Screen Shot 2022-06-10 at 1.19.06 PM.jpg

This was an experiment where I left the lubed bullets in the Houston sun all day in the heat of a summer day. The lube simply stayed put. The left bullet is the Moose Mold Christmas tree bullet with the rebated base that is slotted to accept twine to tie it off to the paper cartridge. The right bullet is the Tennessee Christmas tree mold that is also rebated, but designed to slip down into the cardboard tubes. You can see what I meant by the quantity of lube on the bullet when dipping them versus sending them through the Star lubesizer.

And the MTM 20 gauge utility box in the photo above is the perfect size for holding paper cartridges. I originally tried to use the blue plastic ammo box shown, but I found I would rip the cartridges open when trying to pull them out. The MTM box works much better and there is room inside for your caps, cleaning jags and other things. It was less than $20 at my local Walmart.

Good luck on your project. I was really surprised how much fun these rifles are to shoot. If you find out you need .54 caliber projectiles, let me know and I can send you some to try.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
HPorter ,
Good job .
I think all you missed was a personal take on nitrated paper and the full paper patch bore scrubber .

Nope no direct work but I keep rereading my notes and looking up needle fire cartridges as we have a 1866 Chessepot 11mm .
 

hporter

Active Member
That's funny, because as the wife drug me off to go food shopping, I realized I hadn't mentioned paper.

I have no experience with nitrated paper. I have watched the videos of how to do it with stump remover from the big box stores. But so far, el-cheapo tracing paper from Walmart has worked the best as the body of the cartridge and either ladies hair curling paper or cigarette paper for the base cap (where the sparks from the musket cap penetrate the cartridge) has worked fine. The hair curling paper is a bit sturdier than the cigarette paper. Both seem to ignite fine. Although I am curious about the process of nitrating the paper, since it works fine not doing it, I am hesitant to spend precious free time doing unnecessary work.

We are in the high 90's with heat indexes over 100 now everyday. I probably need to be very mindful of setting the cow pasture on fire and really pay attention and watch for burning paper exiting the barrel. I do plan to try my round ball "cartridges" out next outing. And maybe the Era's gone Sharps bullet if I get a chance to cast some soon.
 

oscarflytyer

Well-Known Member
So I laid eyes on this afternoon. Awesome Piece! bore is pitted but has rifling. stock is cracked on both sides behind tang (but repairable and wouldn't notice). Functions. Has the R S Lawrence pellet primer system (missing the finger button 'actuator' under the tang). Initials carved in the stock, but think they are of the original (prob Civil War veteran) owner of the rifle. Current owner is 60 and is his GF's (or possibly GGFs) rifle. Based on the model and serial number, it should have been in the Civil War.

HOPE to get to talk to the owner and see if he has any Civil War family history. Also found where can research the serial numbers and possibly tell what unit the rifle was (if) issued to. That would be icing on the cake, BUT would have to be able to discern the last digit of the SN.

What I know about it so far... and after more research, need to go back and relook

Cavalry Carbine
Transitional New Model 1863 - because has patchbox
Serial # 7701X(? - should be 5 digit?) (we couldn't tell if the last possible digit was a number or a bad ding. since serial numbers should have started at 71000 odd, I now assume that it is serial number 7701x)

~ .52 Cal - SHOULD be/LGS is going to cerrasafe chamber and few inches of the bbl.

Markings:

Hartford Connecticut (should have C Sharps, but very patinaed and rough and hard to read)

R S Lawrence Patent 1859 (under sight)

Apr 12 1859 Patent (rs recvr)
C Sharps Patent Oct 5 1852 (rs recvr)

Sharps Patent Sept 12 1848 (ls recvr)

R S Lawrence Patent Dec 30 1859 (on rear of breech block)

H Conant Patent April 1 1856 (breech block)

And some pics for you enjoyment!
 

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oscarflytyer

Well-Known Member
HHHMMMMMM... Just seeing that even tho it should be a .52 cal, Sharps bores were so bad that (as Missionary said!) it could be anywhere from 52-56!

Good news is LGS will cerrasafe and we will know what size lead ball we need to use!
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
if this is a cartridge gun.
you patch to bore size and let the powder size to groove.
this insures the paper is shredded at the muzzle.

anyway cast, patch, load, dip in bees wax or bayberry wax up to the case mouth or thereabouts.
let drip dry facing down, you don't need that much.
 

hporter

Active Member
Looking through Frank Sellers book "Sharps Firearms", the clean out screw on the side of the breech block would be the easiest way to determine which model. From the serial number, per his book, it could fall into either the 1859 or 1863 serial number range.
1859 Carbine.jpg

1863 Carbine.jpg

1859 Breech Block.jpg1863 Breech Block.jpg

What a wonderful opportunity to handle and fire an original Sharps!
 

Michael

Active Member. Uh/What
Two or three years ago there was an article in Black Powder Cartridge News on paper cartridges. Go on Wolfe Publishing's website see if they have a past issue with the article. I am sure I have that issue in a box, somewhere, still unpacking from a move, kinda like an exercise in triage. I will be happy to copy and send, when I find it, just don't hold your breath. Someone here might want to start a pool as to when.
 

hporter

Active Member
Looking forward to your range report.

I cast up some of the Eras Gone .54 Richmond Sharps bullets from my new mold a couple weeks ago.

Screen Shot 2022-11-04 at 4.42.27 AM.png




I need to get some cartridges made up for my next Sharps carbine adventure.
 

oscarflytyer

Well-Known Member
Eras Gone - Local Guy next town over! I have talked to him a lot online, yet to meet in person. And I got to see (pics) of the new mold he had redesigned for the 1863 NM Sharps (same bullet design in my pic). He has some great heeled bullet molds!