6mm rem mold question
- Thread starter GWarden
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CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
The twist rate is fine for that length bullet. May not be "optimal" but dont get suked into all that. I have sent hundreds of Speer 105's thru 1:10 243's with excellent accuracy and preformance on game.
But no experience with this caliber or cast bullets. (Only jacketed in .243)
But I am starting a 6mm rifle build and cast has been suggested to me with it. There is little doubt, that I love my cast bullets but didnt think about cast in the 6mm.
Good luck along your path,
CW
But no experience with this caliber or cast bullets. (Only jacketed in .243)
But I am starting a 6mm rifle build and cast has been suggested to me with it. There is little doubt, that I love my cast bullets but didnt think about cast in the 6mm.
Good luck along your path,
CW
Joshua
Taco Aficionado/Salish Sea Pirate/Part-Time Dragon
As originally introduced the .244 Remington had a 1:12 twist. These early rifles struggle with heavy bullets. When they renamed the cartridge the 6mm Remington most rifles were then sold with a faster twist.
My understanding is that length is the determining factor of whether a bullet will become spin stabilized when fired through a certain twist of barrel. Increased bullet weight is a byproduct of longer bullets, but weight isn’t the determining factor of what will or won’t stabilize. When you begin to push the edge of a barrels spin stabilizing potential, a flat based-round nosed 110 grain bullet will stabilize better than a boat tailed-pointy 110 grain bullet, because the first bullet is shorter. I believe there were heavier shorter flat bottomed, blunt nosed bullets specifically made to stabilize in the .244 Rem.
Most cast bullets are flat based and blunt. Lead is heavier than jacket material. Therefore a cast bullet of any given weight will usually be short than a jacketed bullet of a similar weight. Shorter is better when dealing with the border of a barrels ability to stabilize a given bullet.
Does a slower cast bullet of a certain length stabilize better or worse than a jacketed bullet of the same length going 1000fps faster? I don’t know. I know that FPS is part of Miller’s and Greenhill’s stabilizing evaluation equations. I’m no math wiz, I don’t use these equations, but I’ve read about the theory behind them. I really don’t have an answer for you as to whether or not the NOE bullet will work in your 1:9 twist. I suspect it will, I wouldn’t buy that mold if I owned a earlier made .244 Rem with the 1:12 twist.
Side note:
I recently had a chance to bid on a very nice scoped K98 Mauser conversion in .244 Rem. But after some reading I passed on it because I suspected it had the 1:12 twist, and I didn’t want to be limited by that. Also given it’s age the throat might already have been shot out.
My understanding is that length is the determining factor of whether a bullet will become spin stabilized when fired through a certain twist of barrel. Increased bullet weight is a byproduct of longer bullets, but weight isn’t the determining factor of what will or won’t stabilize. When you begin to push the edge of a barrels spin stabilizing potential, a flat based-round nosed 110 grain bullet will stabilize better than a boat tailed-pointy 110 grain bullet, because the first bullet is shorter. I believe there were heavier shorter flat bottomed, blunt nosed bullets specifically made to stabilize in the .244 Rem.
Most cast bullets are flat based and blunt. Lead is heavier than jacket material. Therefore a cast bullet of any given weight will usually be short than a jacketed bullet of a similar weight. Shorter is better when dealing with the border of a barrels ability to stabilize a given bullet.
Does a slower cast bullet of a certain length stabilize better or worse than a jacketed bullet of the same length going 1000fps faster? I don’t know. I know that FPS is part of Miller’s and Greenhill’s stabilizing evaluation equations. I’m no math wiz, I don’t use these equations, but I’ve read about the theory behind them. I really don’t have an answer for you as to whether or not the NOE bullet will work in your 1:9 twist. I suspect it will, I wouldn’t buy that mold if I owned a earlier made .244 Rem with the 1:12 twist.
Side note:
I recently had a chance to bid on a very nice scoped K98 Mauser conversion in .244 Rem. But after some reading I passed on it because I suspected it had the 1:12 twist, and I didn’t want to be limited by that. Also given it’s age the throat might already have been shot out.
Last edited:
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
CW
Joshua
Taco Aficionado/Salish Sea Pirate/Part-Time Dragon
Well a patched round ball does just fine with a 1:66.
I don’t live in wide open varmint country. If I was to buy any 6mm I would want it to be able to run any of the commonly available deer hunting bullets. I hear that the 1:12 will stabilize the 85 grain Partition, but there are many other bullets that it struggles with. Anyways I’m glad that I didn’t buy that .244 Rem. I’ve already got too many half started projects right now, I don’t need a another new cartridge too figure out.
I don’t live in wide open varmint country. If I was to buy any 6mm I would want it to be able to run any of the commonly available deer hunting bullets. I hear that the 1:12 will stabilize the 85 grain Partition, but there are many other bullets that it struggles with. Anyways I’m glad that I didn’t buy that .244 Rem. I’ve already got too many half started projects right now, I don’t need a another new cartridge too figure out.
Ian
Notorious member
Center of gravity behind center of pressure by at least 4% also matters significantly for supersonic, spin-stabilized bullets. I have encountered two cast bullet designs which are unstable at any speed, one of them being a 6.5mm which when shortened from 160 grains to 140, wrapped in paper, and sent out at 2700 FPS from a .270 Winchester FINALLY made round holes and grouped.
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
Those 85g Partitions was the go to for my buddies old 6x47 shooting deer on a crop damage permit thirty plus years ago!! I still have most of a box!
Yup many folks did just fine with that 1:12 its not as flat aweful as it was made out and Sierra made a bullet (a few actually) to better stabilize if slow twists. I used the 22 version @63g and it shot plenty well enough for my uses.
I havent played .243 bore in some years. (Will soon with my 6mm project) So looking forward to that.
CW
Yup many folks did just fine with that 1:12 its not as flat aweful as it was made out and Sierra made a bullet (a few actually) to better stabilize if slow twists. I used the 22 version @63g and it shot plenty well enough for my uses.
I havent played .243 bore in some years. (Will soon with my 6mm project) So looking forward to that.
CW
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
With the NOE 106gr? You've sort of duplicated the 25-20SS with a somewhat heavier bullet! A 22 Magnum done large! I like the idea, can't get 22LR but if a 22, 6mm/25, 6.5, 7mm could be made to mimic some of the older shorter range varmint/small game rounds, that's all gravy IMO. If only I'd stumble upon a large container of extra time...and energy!
JWFilips
Well-Known Member
Yes! I had a Unique Load that did better but the yaw on the bullets were more noticeable! In "Low Node " for some reason when you start to see "yaw" the groups actually tighten up! I have no idea how to explain that! But it pretty much happen most of the time!
Below is the slow Unique group along with a 100 yard 2400 group of 15 shots ( at about 2200 fps) these were copper gas checked and lubed in Ben's Red....the interesting thing is the 100 yard group was shot with FL sized cases that I just wanted to blow out to my rifles chamber! Go figure!
Below is the slow Unique group along with a 100 yard 2400 group of 15 shots ( at about 2200 fps) these were copper gas checked and lubed in Ben's Red....the interesting thing is the 100 yard group was shot with FL sized cases that I just wanted to blow out to my rifles chamber! Go figure!
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I wonder if the yaw has something to do with the idea of the bullet "going to sleep" as it's been described, that it settles it's spin after some yardage from the barrel?
I wouldn't say a thing bad about those groups Jim! Those are great. If I ever get Gordys 6mm Rem done, I'll look hard at that bullet.
I wouldn't say a thing bad about those groups Jim! Those are great. If I ever get Gordys 6mm Rem done, I'll look hard at that bullet.
L Ross
Well-Known Member
Where did I read about Olin hosting a big soiree during the equivalent of the Shot Show where they treated gun rag writers to oceans of likker, mounds of food, and easily accessible wimmen? It was back in the 50's and the article said the bad mouthing of the 6m/m started as soon as the hang overs dissipated. Anyone else read that?
There is a local fishing forum here with a classifieds page and a feller was tryin' to sell a scoped 700 ADL in 6m/m right before deer season for $675. I was tempted to make and offer when the ad remained up for a couple of weeks but I did not. And I even have RCBS dies for one. Dad had one in a Ruger thumb safety 77 decades ago.
There is a local fishing forum here with a classifieds page and a feller was tryin' to sell a scoped 700 ADL in 6m/m right before deer season for $675. I was tempted to make and offer when the ad remained up for a couple of weeks but I did not. And I even have RCBS dies for one. Dad had one in a Ruger thumb safety 77 decades ago.
Rick H
Well-Known Member
All 6mm Remingtons came with the quicker 1-9 twist. The slow twist guns were marked 244 Remington. They renamed them when they changed from the 1-12 and 1-14 barrels to the quicker twist. They easily handle the 107 gr. Bergers with the quick twist.
I don't shoot cast in my 6mmRem. My favorite bullets for deer size game are the Nosler 95gr solid base (discontinued) and the Hornady 100gr. interlock BTSP. Either of those two bullets do a pretty good job on whitetail and are about perfect for antelope. (The goat in my avatar was taken with the 100gr. Hornady at 265 yds. He went two steps.)
I have played with lighter varmint weight bullets but frankly I use .223R/5.56 with 55 gr. sp. for most all of my varmint work. I have never run into those bullet proof coyotes that require 243's or 6mm's to anchor.
I don't shoot cast in my 6mmRem. My favorite bullets for deer size game are the Nosler 95gr solid base (discontinued) and the Hornady 100gr. interlock BTSP. Either of those two bullets do a pretty good job on whitetail and are about perfect for antelope. (The goat in my avatar was taken with the 100gr. Hornady at 265 yds. He went two steps.)
I have played with lighter varmint weight bullets but frankly I use .223R/5.56 with 55 gr. sp. for most all of my varmint work. I have never run into those bullet proof coyotes that require 243's or 6mm's to anchor.