RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
I have a new Tokarov heading my way and so I'm looking for guys to real life reloading experience. I have most of the Lyman 32 moulds and the 311227 for the .30 Mauser. Thoughts? Ric
7.62 X 25 reloading thoughts?
- Thread starter RicinYakima
- Start date
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Thanks for the reply, Josh.
That may be one of the issues I am looking for info on. I have loaded the 30 Mauser with #311227 that the base is below the neck, but the lube groove is protected by the neck walls. It will function with 4.0 grains of Bullseye, but at only 1100 f/s and 16,000 psi. Much over that pressure and there is gas leakage past the bullet, regardless of the alloy.
What I was hoping was a real increase in velocity with maybe a gas check design in the Tokarov. When playing "kick the can" I am not good at range estimation on pop cans over 75 yards. So I'm looking for a flatter load and data.
Ric
That may be one of the issues I am looking for info on. I have loaded the 30 Mauser with #311227 that the base is below the neck, but the lube groove is protected by the neck walls. It will function with 4.0 grains of Bullseye, but at only 1100 f/s and 16,000 psi. Much over that pressure and there is gas leakage past the bullet, regardless of the alloy.
What I was hoping was a real increase in velocity with maybe a gas check design in the Tokarov. When playing "kick the can" I am not good at range estimation on pop cans over 75 yards. So I'm looking for a flatter load and data.
Ric
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Thank you Josh. I think I will try to turn one out of brass on my lathe, and make a dummy cartridge. The C-96 will feed wad cutters if the length is correct, so I hope the Tokarov with also feeds easily. There was a reason all those early auto-loading designs were bottlenecks. Ric
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Fiver, I have not had any success with buffers in very small cases, even the 32/20 and 25/20. If you have, please give me your experiences. Ric
Josh
Well-Known Member
If you make one on your lathe can you post up a pic of it? That is the one thing I want is a non computer controlled lathe. I need to make a centering jig for 12 ga wads and a few size dies.
9
9.3X62AL
Guest
Accurate Arms' AA-7 is your friend in 30 Mauser/7.62 x 25 Tokarev. Start around 6.5 grains with 85-90 grain bullets (very docile, for the C-96), and you can work toward 7.2 grains in the Tokarev. The CZ-52 can absorb up to 7.7 grains, but make haste slowly because max loads are very brass-capacity-dependant.
I have used a variety of bullet weights in these calibers over the years, from the old Hornady RNSP 86 grainers (GREAT varmint whackers!) to their .308" 90 grain XTP. With J-words, a cannelure is a big help for setting a moderate roll crimp to hold bullets in place during feedramp contact. With castings, I have used a taper crimp of sorts......remove the sizing die's decapping rod, and give the case mouth end a little squeeze into the bullet's sidewall, about half the depth of the case mouth's thickness. This does the trick with the Lee 100 grain RN and Lyman #311419, a 92 grain GC FN.
My first 500 cases for these calibers (c. 1991) were reformed and cut-off 9mm Win Mag. I still have about 150 of these running around, and their necks aren't as good at supporting bullets as those of the Starline brass.
I have used a variety of bullet weights in these calibers over the years, from the old Hornady RNSP 86 grainers (GREAT varmint whackers!) to their .308" 90 grain XTP. With J-words, a cannelure is a big help for setting a moderate roll crimp to hold bullets in place during feedramp contact. With castings, I have used a taper crimp of sorts......remove the sizing die's decapping rod, and give the case mouth end a little squeeze into the bullet's sidewall, about half the depth of the case mouth's thickness. This does the trick with the Lee 100 grain RN and Lyman #311419, a 92 grain GC FN.
My first 500 cases for these calibers (c. 1991) were reformed and cut-off 9mm Win Mag. I still have about 150 of these running around, and their necks aren't as good at supporting bullets as those of the Starline brass.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Josh, LOL!! Mine is a 1947 Craftsman (Atlas) 6 inch with lantern tool post. Definitely pre-CNC. Right now it is 100+ in the shop here in the high desert, so it will be October till I can start grinding angled cutters to use.
9.3, I have used AA#5 at 5.5 grains in the 30 Mauser since Starline started making brass back in the 90's. But that was with jacketed bullets, mainly Speer 1/2 jacketed plinkers. I broke the frame on my CZ-52 using that load after I greased the locking rollers, not a smart thing to do. THEN, I read the translation of the manual and found out the insides only used a light coating of oil for rust prevention and not lube. I think I may have a #311419, but I have not seen it years, so will go look in the mould drawers. The Lee 30 Mauser die puts a .005" roll crimp on trimmed cases and I have not had a problem with bullet recession.
9.3, I have used AA#5 at 5.5 grains in the 30 Mauser since Starline started making brass back in the 90's. But that was with jacketed bullets, mainly Speer 1/2 jacketed plinkers. I broke the frame on my CZ-52 using that load after I greased the locking rollers, not a smart thing to do. THEN, I read the translation of the manual and found out the insides only used a light coating of oil for rust prevention and not lube. I think I may have a #311419, but I have not seen it years, so will go look in the mould drawers. The Lee 30 Mauser die puts a .005" roll crimp on trimmed cases and I have not had a problem with bullet recession.
9
9.3X62AL
Guest
Gotta be judicious with roll-crimping these dinky necks.......over-do the crimp, and that tiny neck can spring away from bullet sidewalls. Your .005" reduction sounds moderate and appropriate.
Josh
Well-Known Member
That is the size I want, about a 12" max, just for small work like size dies and the like. Plus it is an art to learn a real lathe, programming a computer is easy but there isn't anything to it. I would have tons of fun with little projects with a 12"
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
While looking for the 311419 mould, I came across some 31357's that I had cast several years ago from an Ideal #4 tool. These are 100 grains and as luck would have it, the lube groove is within the neck when loaded to 1.375" OAL. I pretty sure this was the original Colt New Police black powder bullet, and have never seen a mould block, but only as part of the one piece tools. Will not be able to shoot them very fast, but may work for the now defunct Speer plinkers.
H
HARRYMPOPE
Guest
I shot the 311316 with 4.5 unique in a pps 43.also shot the 311419 but I can't remember the load.did you get a m57 Rick?
I just looked at one today and am tempted.
I just looked at one today and am tempted.
Outpost75
Active Member
I use Accurate 31-087T in both the .32 ACP and in the 7.62x25 for a CZ52. I run the bullets from COWW and use the soft air-cooled ones for .32 ACP with 2 grains of Bullseye for 850 fps and the frosty, quenched ones in 7.62x25 with 5.5 grains of Bullseye for 1420 fps. I tumble in Lee Liquid Alox and size bullets to .312 for my .32 ACPs and .310 for the CZ52. Accuracy is better than PPU ball ammo, the load shoots to the sights and I get no leading. No gascheck is necessary if the bullet FITS and is properly lubricated. Two cavities of my mold have been hollowpointed by Erik at www.hollowpointmold.com and the air cooled wheelweight 82-grain HP bullets expand some from my Beretta Tomcat, and the quenched HPs fragment like a varmint bomb at full velocity from the CZ52.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
I did, but C96 Mauser loads are not heavy enough to cycle. Will look at Bullseye load when I return.
H
HARRYMPOPE
Guest
I would have thought that 4.5 unique and 10g load would cycle with TT style pistol. The Bolt and spring on that PPS 43 is pretty stout.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
The only gun I have that uses this cartridge is the CZ52 and it, like all roller delayed actions I
own, throws the brass so far as to make reloading a very questionable concept for that gun.
Probably the TT ejection is more like a normal Browning pattern semiauto, so brass recovery
becomes a realistic expectation.
Bill
own, throws the brass so far as to make reloading a very questionable concept for that gun.
Probably the TT ejection is more like a normal Browning pattern semiauto, so brass recovery
becomes a realistic expectation.
Bill
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
The C96 load lays them gently 3feet right and 3feet to the rear when shot in the Mauser. In the Tokarov, it extracts, but case is captured between the breach face and top rear of barrel. Just does not hit the extractor with enough force.