7mm Mauser

[Petrol & Powder]

The 7mm Mauser is attractive if you reload because as a reloader, you can extract the full potential of the cartridge.
However, don't be misled by the extra case capacity of the 7mm Mauser over the 7mm-08, it's not as big of an advantage as it appears.

The 7mm-08 is a very efficient cartridge. While it does get a little more freedom from SAAMI in terms of pressure due to its use in newer rifles, it is also a very efficient cartridge. When the wildcat crowd necked down the 308 WIN to 7mm they hit upon something extraordinary. That cartridge made the jump from wildcat to factory loading because it does what the 7mm Mauser does AND it does it in new, strong actions.

Let's face it, the 308 Winchester has proven to be an excellent parent case. The 7mm-08 benefits from a steeper shoulder angle and the reduced taper of the casing when compared to the 7mm Mauser.
Yeah, the 7mm-08 has slightly less case capacity than the Mauser but after the bullet is seated it may be a draw and it uses that more modern case design to its advantage.

When modern rifle manufacturers were still chambering new rifles in 7mm Mauser, they generally put the 7 x 57 in a long action. (there weren't many "medium" length actions, most manufacturers has long & short) That negated a lot of the appeal the 7mm Mauser had over the 7mm-08. Those same manufacturers could put the 7mm-08 in a short action and fill the same role. The sales of the 7mm Mauser rifles didn't justify making new rifles in both calibers and the newer 7mm-08 got the nod.

Ammunition manufacturers didn't need to worry about 7mm-08 cartridges ending up in 100+ year old rifles unless someone re-barreled one of those old actions. This made SAAMI comfortable with higher pressure limits for the 7mm-08 over the 7mm Mauser.

I think both cartridges are GREAT cartridges. I think just about every smokeless powder rifle cartridge that followed the 7mm Mauser owes some debt to the 7 x 57.

 

[RBHarter]

I've never personally checked the actual in the field case difference between the "big 3" .473s but the visually straightened , short necked , and fat steep shouldered 308 case has huge gains over the svelt gracefully tapered long necked cousins . The 8×57 followed a similar path 50 yr earlier and the Savages shortly after . Savage had the answer just not the available production strength at conception hinge the 99 the 2nd or 3rd runner up in "grace yet built like a tank" guns .

 

[L Ross]

What is so terrible about a long action vs a short action? Rapidity of fire? Shorter bolt throw? Lighter, more compact rifle? I think of a bolt action hunting rifle as a single shot with 3 or 4 extra rounds that don't rattle in my pocket.

 

[RBHarter]

It's about arm length . I'm so fickle I like almost everything that goes bang .......others more than some .

 

[Petrol & Powder]

What is so terrible about a long action vs a short action? Rapidity of fire? Shorter bolt throw? Lighter, more compact rifle? I think of a bolt action hunting rifle as a single shot with 3 or 4 extra rounds that don't rattle in my pocket.

Well I'll probably regret this but here goes:
A short action allows a shorter receiver, so that's a little less weight. A short action allows a shorter bolt, so that's a little less weight and slightly shorter bolt throw. All of this allows for a slightly shorter overall rifle with the same length barrel and slightly less overall weight. Now this may seem trivial but if you don't NEED that extra steel - why wag it around ?

 

[RicinYakima]

I like them because they look appropriate for a 24 inch barrel. And my favorite rifles and actions are of 30/06 length. I could stop eating potatoes for a week before hunting season and loose as much weight as a short action saves. Plus I could never get around to making a short action from two 1903 Springfields for the perfect .250/3000.

I don't reject the short action for someone that wants one, it is just they have no useful advantage for me. While l have two, a Savage Model 10 FP and a Savage 1920, I could never tell any advantage for them from a shooting standpoint.

 

[todd]

the long bolt vs the short bolt theory proved that a short bolt is proved that they could go faster reload time(don't remember time but it was like .005 second faster than the long bolt). so most theories are defunct, as this one is. i use single shots all the time. i know the phrase, "one shot, one kill", was "beat" into me by my army drill sergeants. it must've werked because i made expert in everything, except hand grenades.

i don't about the weight of rifle. i gave up on the "weighing less" about 10-12 years ago. i had a rem m700 mountain rifle in '06 that weighed with a scope and 5 rounds, 7lbs. i had killed deer with it but i didn't like the "scope eye" that came with the rifle. in the "light weight" rifles is a win m94 in 35/30-30 and a rem m7(18.5" barrel) in 7-08 and my husky m46 in 9.3x57. i guess i could consider the 1898 springfield armory(bubbasized) in 30-40 krag to be "light weight" rifle, but i never measured it on the scale.

the rest of my rifles weigh 8 to 9 lbs, a good, comfortable weight. i have a tc encore in a 23" mgm heavy factory barrel in 20 vartarg. with it i can do .1-.2" group at 100 yards(10 shots/bench) with careful handloads(i gave up careful handloads about 5 or 6 years ago). run-of-mill reloads go .3-.5" at 100 yards. or i could take another tc encore with 23" mgm heavy factory barrel in 500 linebaugh or 444 marlin. the accuracy for the both of them are around 5/8 - 3/4" at 100 yards(5 shots/bench). all of these rifle are shorter or the same length as the win m94.

"why wag it around? " because i can. i am a guy, who had a bad stroke and left me with right side of my body at only 20% capable. yes, i shoot at a bench. yes, i shoot deer with primos bipod. yes, my walks in the woods are about 100 yards away from my polaris utv.

and on that note, its time to sand my rifle stocks. btw, its for a 98 mauser and the next rifle stock is a 93 mauser.

 

[Missionary]

Trivial Pursuit item: Spanish used Win 94 30 WCFs as Military rifles!

And so did some special units in South America although I think more 1892 made it way down South here.

 

[RicinYakima]

When I was doing some "goodwill" activities with the firefighters in Argentina, one of the most popular rifles were the Model 92's in 44-40. The Model 73's were popular, but as they wore out and became unfixable, the 92's took over. I think that is because even in the 1980's most of the cattle ranches were still horse cowboys. Gasoline and imported machinery was very expensive and hard to maintain out in the rural areas.

 

[Missionary]

All the1892 rifles carbines I have seen down here (origonal) in Peru are in 44 WCF. Not surprised though. It still rips up whatever gets in the way under 75 yards...
Did see one badly "mountain mechanic modified" 92 that was horribly chambered in 9mm.. May have been a 32-20 as the barrel was drilled smoothbore to some diameter a 9mm would fly through. Lever, bolt, hammer and trigger as a single shot.

 

[RicinYakima]

One of them told me that when the 73's brass lifters wore out, they would pour Babbitt bearing metal onto them and refit them like an engine bearing.

 

[Missionary]

I bet-cha some one has used lead also.. it would wear fast but would be an easy fix with just a hot solder iron cooked in the fire.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

Loaded to the same pressure there would not be a nickels difference between 7x57 and 7mm-08. Minute differences in performance do not add up to much. I think the resurrection of old cartridges appear to follow a path. There is a flurry of interest to include the shooting publications. Then the "so whatness" kicks in. Back into obscurity. Rifle discontinued in that caliber. There are some nice compact ,short action rifles in 7mm-08. I wanted that level of performance. The outcome was an older Remington 700 SPS in 7mm-08. Cast bullets next on the list such as it is.

 

[RicinYakima]

Still, I would have a hard time trying to think something was better than Jim Corbett's Rigby .275 (7x57) Mauser for a classic rifle. He shot man-eating tigers and leopards for thirty years with this rifle.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

Americans tend in large numbers to carry grossly over powered firearms. Hence, "better" does have much horsepower around these parts. Calibers like 7x57, 250-3000 and 257 Roberts work very well.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

There's a LOT of history that is intertwined and utterly inseparable from cartridge selection.
Without getting into a senseless and unwinnable caliber war, allow me to say that a preference for one caliber/cartridge is not a declaration that another cartridge is bad.

After the introduction of smokeless powder, militaries adopted smaller bore, magazine fed rifles. From about 1890 to roughly the beginning of WWI, most of the cartridges that later became known as long action cartridges were adopted. These include the 7.62 x 54R, .303 British (originally black powder), most of the Mauser designs, the .30-06 and many others.
One only needs to look at the sights on these pre-WWI rifles to get a glimpse at the incredibly optimistic ranges these weapon designers envisioned. Theories on how combat would occur with the new smokeless powder cartridges proved to be incorrect.

By the end of WWI, everyone knew that the average solider would not engage the enemy at ranges of 1500 -2000+ yards. Putting iron sights graduated out to 2000+ yards on an average infantry rifle is like putting a speedometer graduated to 140 mph on 1974 Impala with a low compression 350 and a two barrel carb. Looks cool in the showroom but you're not fooling anyone. Will the bullet go that far? Sure.
Is anyone seriously engaging the enemy at those ranges ? Nope.

After WWI, the world was flooded with rifles chambered for these first generation smokeless cartridges. Russia was now the Soviet Union, most of western Europe was devastated, the U.S. wanted to move on and then the great depression hit. So the world was pretty much saturated with those long cartridges. Nations had invested heavily in those platforms and were now stuck with them. When WWII started, everyone used what they had.

After WWII, it was clear that there was little need for a 3 1/2" long, roughly 30 caliber cartridge. But after 60 years of insane amounts of surplus long action cartridges and the rifles to shoot them, the civilian market was content with the long cartridges. There's NOTHING wrong with long actions but they're not always needed. Yes - there are times when the long action shines. I'm not saying they're bad. Put the tar & feathers away, I'm not disparaging the .30-06.


There's no way to separate the early history of those long action cartridges from what followed. And there's NOTHING wrong with the long action cartridges. There are times when we can take advantage of the long action cartridges but there are also times when a short action cartridge will get the job done nicely.

 

[Missionary]

But that larger case gives us room for slower powders. That is what I like to see.. 25-06 is what our 257 Bob will get reamed to one day. 4831 should be fun !

 

[Mowgli Terry]

But that larger case gives us room for slower powders. That is what I like to see.. 25-06 is what our 257 Bob will get reamed to one day. 4831 should be fun !

Heresy. The 257 works great with 4350. A friend has an FN sporter originally chambered for 250-3000. It had been rechambered to 25-06. To add to this story Bubba installed sling attachments. In so doing he drilled through the stock and into the barrel.

 

[todd]

now heres a guy that knows what he's doin!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rick H]

Please tell me that is epoxy and not some idiot making grapes with a stick welder.
Wow, just WOW!!!!!