91 Argentine

Uncle Grinch

Active Member
Just won an all matching ‘91 Argentine rifle on GB. Was missing my 1909 Carbine that I sold earlier this year and since I still had the dies, brass and mould, I just had to buy it. There’s something about these ‘91’s that keep calling me back. Notice I said rifle... this one has a 30 inch barrel which is new for me. Can I expect any reloading issues with this much longer barrel?
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
nope.
314299 [ a real one not a 308-298] and some 2400 and life is good.
ignore the throat that goes to the muzzle.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
You may want to contact "argie1891" as he has been shooting one in competition for over 20 years.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
Buckshot is real good with them too.
I could also dig out Littlegirls notes and her loads, she spent a couple of summers shooting nothing but the 3 we have here.
rock chucks and ground squirrels up through targets and deer [and almost the hood of my truck when she took it out once]
I still have the airc 220gr loverign type rip-off Accurate mold that almost fills the argies throat she had me pay for.
 

Uncle Grinch

Active Member
I have the Lyman 314299 mould, which should be a good start. Will have to drag out my notes on the 7.65 to see what a starting point is. Need to cast some up for testing and need to slug the bore.

Hope to get it in early next week so I can check it out.

Thanks for the replies.

Mike
 

oscarflytyer

Well-Known Member
ignore the throat that goes to the muzzle.

lmao! Don't ALL old Mausers have throats all the way to the muzzle?!? Made the mistake one time of putting some loads together for 6.5 Swede, measured in an original Swede. Mistake part was (trying) to chamber one in the Win M70 FW. Talk about chamber seating a bullet! Dang!

The Argie is a great rifle and round. Sold mine, and nearly all my milsurps, as I have to have peep sights to even see irons these days. And cast was a pain, compared to levers that took Skinner or Lyman peeps and cast is just easier. And I can hunt with all the Levers and peeps!
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
To me, the 91 always carried sort of like a Penn style muzzle loader, long and slim. Mines a great shooter.
 

Uncle Grinch

Active Member
I was thinking the long barrel may affect cause me to alter my load in an attempt to keep my velocity down to 1600 - 1800 fps. Long barrels do cause an increase in velocity...right?
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
yes and no.
when you run out of gas to push, you actually have friction slowing things down again.
the potential to push longer is there but you have to have the gas volume to do it with.

I worry about actual velocity about as much as I worry about panama invading the US with their military.
if I need it for a specific purpose I go looking for it.
if my rifle shoots it's best groups with 24grs of xx powder instead of the 16grs everyone says it should well tough for everyone else.
 

VZerone

Active Member
All the old Mausers of just about any caliber have long throats because they were designed for and shot the long heavy round nose bullets. I can tell you the Argies are no hinderance with their long throats as I've gotten good accuracy from them even with shorter bullets. For a shorter bullet I shoot the 30 Silhouette. It is suppose to weigh 180 grains fully dressed. Another is the 30 Heavy Silhouette which more often is called the 30-06 bullet. Both of these were designed by 45 2.1 and Mihec Moulds cut the blocks. The 30-06 bullet weights around 212 grains which is inline with the original 91 Argentine was designed for. Those along with the Lyman 314299 is another good choice. Your velocity range is up to you. A lot of times 308 (cast loads) data works pretty good in the Argies.

Have fun with that rifle and good shooting. They don't make them like that anymore!
 

Uncle Grinch

Active Member
Well I also have a new mould I picked up, NOE 311-188. Not sure if it will feed as it is somewhat of a flat nose.
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
hopefully it makes 313 or so.
you can get some pretty flat bullets to feed in the argies if the oal is long enough.
they seem to have a pretty good ramp up to the barrel.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I was thinking the long barrel may affect cause me to alter my load in an attempt to keep my velocity down to 1600 - 1800 fps. Long barrels do cause an increase in velocity...right?

I shoot the old GB "Fat 30" in mine. Started with 13.0 Red Dot and when I ran out of that I tried 16.0 2400. Both shot ,in the low and slow range, but the RD was better and used less powder. Gotta buy an 8 lbs keg someday. I don't recall what the F30 weighs at the moment, but there was plenty of throat left over.

I've put some of the old Norma 7.65x53 jacketed stuff through other 91's back in 70's. That stuff was stout and not a lot of fun to play with. Low and slow is lots more fun.
 

VZerone

Active Member
Bret a long time ago when I was a young fellow I had some Argentine military ammo that I know was loaded for the 1909 that I fired in a 91 carbine. OUCH!!!! and OUCH again.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Yeah, the Argentine stuff was pretty hot. Even in the '09 it hurt some. No flies on a lot of those old rounds like the 7.65x53, 8x57, etc.
 

Bohica

Member
Maybe I am the odd ball, but I have a VZ24 8mm Mauser the has no throat. Rifling starts just past where the case neck ends.
 

VZerone

Active Member
Maybe I am the odd ball, but I have a VZ24 8mm Mauser the has no throat. Rifling starts just past where the case neck ends.


You are no oldball as I've also found many 6.5 Japanese Arisaka's the same way. If you think about it why do we need an end to the cartridge portion of the chamber????
 

VZerone

Active Member
Yeah, the Argentine stuff was pretty hot. Even in the '09 it hurt some. No flies on a lot of those old rounds like the 7.65x53, 8x57, etc.

Yeah Bret many discount some of the old cartridges as weak. In reality that 7.65 is really kicking on the heels of the 308 . So is the 7.62x54R and 7.55 French. Actaully that Russian round is kicking on the heels of the 30-06. It's a far better cartridge then the 308.
 
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