A few comments on cast bullet seating dies

Ian

Notorious member
Of all the handloading tools I own, the bullet seating die has been one of the most critical for accuracy in my rifles. Cast bullets like to try and go every which way but straight into the case, and a die that supports the case neck and aligns and holds the bullet straight during the entire operation is quite handy. I tried several different brands of these dies and have found two which actually work for me: The Forster benchrest seating die (available with or without the micrometer thimble) and the Wilson dies used in conjunction with an arbor press. Not being one who participates in sanctioned competitions much, I had to more or less figure this out on my own. If I had attended a CBA match at some point and taken the opportunity to observe some of those gentlemen working their craft I'm sure my learning curve would have been much less steep. Anyway, these two tools WORK.

One caveat about the Forster. You will likely have to modify it if you are using bullets much more than .001" over nominal jacketed diameter. A simple lap job of the neck area of the internal sliding sleeve with a dowel and oiled emery paper to fit your necks closely with the bullet diameter and case neck diameter of your choosing makes for a very solid setup. If the other steps of the case preparation process such as resizing and neck expansion/bellmouthing are done correctly, a guided bullet seating die will typically yield cartridge runout less than .002", and this has a very significant effect on accuracy.

One tool that I consider a waste of money for loading cast bullets is the Hornady New Dimension rifle seating die with the neck/shoulder support collar. These may work on a self-aligning press such as a Forster Co-Ax, but in typical presses there is enough mis-alignment between shellholder and die to overcome the limited support of the neck/shoulder insert and cause the entire neck to be slightly bent as the bullet is seated. Perhaps I'm simply not using the dies correctly, but I have much better luck with the Forster seating die and have purchased one for each of my bottle-neck rifle calibers. For me, at least, he results shown on my targets fully justify the expense of these specialty seating tools.
 
3

358156hp

Guest
Sadly, todays manufacturing tolerances aren't what they could be. I noticed early on that my Star bullet sizer had an alignment issue between the die entry and the punch. I didn't believe Magma would be terribly concerned about it since most people might not even notice it, so I didn't call them. For handgun bullets okay, if I were trying to milk the last bit of accuracy from a rifle in CBA competition, I'd be really upset about it. A friend of mine is a machinist, if this becomes an issue, he can fix it. Now, back on topic: I greatly appreciate the information about the New Dimension seating die. I'm getting decent accuracy with Hornady dies in other rifles, but nothing truly outstanding. I may try a different seating die for my longer range rifles to see what develops.
 

Ian

Notorious member
A multi-use runout gauge is handy for finding problems and identifying which stage(s) of the loading process is(are) inducing inconsistencies. I just use a gauge block, a dial indicator, and a scrap of polished granite. My issue with the Hornady dies is they hold the bullet and neck in alignment but allow the case head to deflect laterally any direction the press ram/shell holder may be pushing it. No point in supporting the top end if the bottom isn't held in alignment also, it's like the just moved the problem from the bottom and put it on the top. Now if the seating die body was a close-tolerance fit to the case, that would be better, but mine is just a huge, hollow hole with the sliding neck/shoulder support bushing floating inside and the seating stem held firmly in the top thimble. Not the best setup in my opinion.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
I got lucky with my 357 and the Redding Comp seater die. The throats in the FA are .357 and I have to size .357 or I can't chamber the round. The Redding die meant for jacketed works perfectly for this revolver but not for .358 bullets. The Redding does hold the case body as well as the sleeve guiding the bullet straight but if your not sizing .357 you would need to modify the sleeve.
 

Outpost75

Active Member
BleedHoleRCBSeater.jpg Another factor in seating dies, which is often overlooked when loading cast bullets, is the effect of lube buildup in the die, which will then cause changes in seating depth. This condition is especially apparent if you use the tumble-on film lubes and don't clean out the die frequently.

In the calibers I load in greatest quantity, I solved the problem by having Erik at www.hollowpointmold.com drill bleed holes in my cast bullet seater dies. This enables excess lube to be vented from the die so I can load long production runs without having to disassemble to clean the die and then also have to readjust it to the proper setting. Excess lube is extruded out the bleed hole and I save the little "lube worms" for fluxing my casting pot.

Success finally in uploading the picture, this image is about 260k. I can say that this method is simple, affordable and works very well. I have done this to every cast bullet seater die I own.
 
Last edited:

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
That is a great idea. I have been known to keep the post office busy going to Erik, looks like there will be more.

Pictures should soon be working, it's not that they aren't allowed, it's just part of the software set up that isn't yet set up. Same with avatar's.
 

Outpost75

Active Member
Hopefully I will be able to upload photos and articles soon too....

I don't mind them being held in a moderator buffer pending approval, because that is good operating practice and needed to maintain the quality and act as a troll deterrent....
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Tech support is working on the problem. I will see if he can get it fixed today.
 

JSH

Active Member
I use the Lyman m die a LOT. It seems to work for me. Bottle neck cases get just enough of the bell/flare taken off to chamber, unless I have to feed from a magazine. Other wise it is one at a time.
I drove myself almost crazy trying to make the perfect c art ridge each and every time. Measure run out and several other things. Problem was "I couldn't see the trees for the forest". I made the very best ammo I could, but it wasn't what the gun wanted.
I now see why a lot of folks had multiples of same caliber dies.
One has to load to fit that specific gun chamber. Good,cheap and fast come to mind, you only get to pick two.
A cartridge with zero run out, fired in any gun doesn't mean accurate. The case has to fit the gun, the bullet has to fit the bore and throat.
Yes it is a pita. But, each gun I own has its own ammo. I expect a lot and strive to make them the best I can and most times a good shooting load is still not good enough.
When I started casting I was a doubting thomas for sure. After about two years I was convinced that I could make cast shoot as good as jacketed. I was told I was nuts. For the most part I upset a fair amount of folks that shoot their .30+ cent bullets into a 3-4" group and my old lead slugs cut that in half or better.
Jeff
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Ok Charles, what is the home made die in the photo. Is that a straight line seater?
I hafe a feeling it is just that and something you made yourself?
 

Charles Graff

Moderator Emeritus
The pic of of a Lyman 310 tool and dies in 45 Colt. There is also a Lyman Resizer which is a push/drive in hand full length resizing die. I did make the knock out punch with the large head. I use this sizing died in an arbor press and like the big surface to push on when removing the case from the die. I have a lot of old balloon head 45 Colt cases that will not fit in a conventional shell holder as their is no groove above the rim. These are the tools I use to reload those cases.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
here is one of those places where looking elsewhere and knowing a guy with a machine or two can help with rifle stuff.

ponsess warren carry's the old in-line seat die [vickermans?] which has a window to drop the boolit in and hold it in alignment on top of the sleeve and it allows you to manually align the nose with the top punch.
you raise the case and sleeve together and the top punch pushes the boolit through the sleeve into the case neck.
I have a bunch of the sleeves but they don't work with everything or every boolit diameter.

but if I could find someone to make the little sliding sleeves and the top punches...