RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
They did.
A small rant
- Thread starter Kevin Stenberg
- Start date
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
Yep, switched from carbon tetra chloride based, to chlorine based cleaners. Phase out started in the 80's.
Carbon Tetra Chloride is now virtually phased out of most everything.
It was the carbon atoms in it that caused kidney damage, not the chlorine.
I still have a 5 gallon bucket of carb cleaner that is based on it. It will take anything off metal, if left soak long enough.
Asbestos Brake pads started being phased out in the 90's. We're discontinued in American manufacturing in 2000. However many foreign cars still have them.Plus pads Imported from China and India still contain asbestos. That is how they make them so cheap. There is no ban on asbestous in Imported brake shoes,yet. Precautions still need to be taken with brake pads on a pre owned car.
Carbon Tetra Chloride is now virtually phased out of most everything.
It was the carbon atoms in it that caused kidney damage, not the chlorine.
I still have a 5 gallon bucket of carb cleaner that is based on it. It will take anything off metal, if left soak long enough.
Asbestos Brake pads started being phased out in the 90's. We're discontinued in American manufacturing in 2000. However many foreign cars still have them.Plus pads Imported from China and India still contain asbestos. That is how they make them so cheap. There is no ban on asbestous in Imported brake shoes,yet. Precautions still need to be taken with brake pads on a pre owned car.
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Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I've seen some similar sad stories. One guy was an ex-con (larceny) who was a true artist with a paint gun. His body work and paint jobs were flawless, and I'm real picky! He did great for a few years and then the pot took him to harder stuff. Lost his house, wife, kids, business, everything. Sad, sad story of a guy I thought was going to be an exception to such a fate.
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
I should have maybe said over regulated.
I meant lead, they basically passed so many regulations, (EPA)that it may as well became illegal, for a small legitimate, shop to do any amount of it in Ohio.
They made lacquer clear, and eventually lacquer base for automotive impossible, by demanding certain VOC outputs for body shops. Making it virtually so expensive to obey the law that you could not afford to paint a whole car with it. We were fined once on the lead and twice on the lacquer.
Most local auto body suppliers quit selling lacquer and leading supplies completely.
However I understand that with the new down draft VOC guns lacquer is once again making a come back in the air brush trade.But still being coated with polyurethane.Which has improved in quality greatly.
I meant lead, they basically passed so many regulations, (EPA)that it may as well became illegal, for a small legitimate, shop to do any amount of it in Ohio.
They made lacquer clear, and eventually lacquer base for automotive impossible, by demanding certain VOC outputs for body shops. Making it virtually so expensive to obey the law that you could not afford to paint a whole car with it. We were fined once on the lead and twice on the lacquer.
Most local auto body suppliers quit selling lacquer and leading supplies completely.
However I understand that with the new down draft VOC guns lacquer is once again making a come back in the air brush trade.But still being coated with polyurethane.Which has improved in quality greatly.
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Mitty38
Well-Known Member
This was the 90's during the Switch over to base coat, the drive to go with all polyester stuff, And the big EPA crack down on small body shops and VOC's. The drive to get down draft booths, Tyvec Suits with hoods, as a cure all for everything. Big dollar items back then.
After you mentioned it. I have googled around and witnessed, others working with lead too on this day and age.
I wonder how they are sanding and filing lead, without the EPA up their but. I understand if they are using it as a base filler. But they are working it. When we were warned then, fined, and threatened with closure, back in the 90's.
Maybe after it's use diminished as a mainstay, the EPA Slacked off ???
After you mentioned it. I have googled around and witnessed, others working with lead too on this day and age.
I wonder how they are sanding and filing lead, without the EPA up their but. I understand if they are using it as a base filler. But they are working it. When we were warned then, fined, and threatened with closure, back in the 90's.
Maybe after it's use diminished as a mainstay, the EPA Slacked off ???
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Winelover
North Central Arkansas
Back in the early 80's I used a product called Aluma-Lead. IIRC, it was in metallically powder form. Too long ago to remember what was added to it. Similar to Bondo, in application, but with much better results. No idea what ever became of the product.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Why would EPA be up their butt? Lead was a tiny, tiny percentage of the body work biz even back in the early 80's, or 70's for that matter, mostly used in artisan type high dollar shops doing chops and such. Are you talking your State EPA type organization? My FIL started out in bodywork in the 50's when lead was it. He dumped lead as soon as plastic hit the market.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I never understood the bad rep plastic filler got. Even a factory vehicle has filler on it. Yes, if you layer it 2" thick over a hole with nothing but thin air to support it, it ain't agonna last. But properly used, it's great stuff.
Winelover
North Central Arkansas
I also worked as a GM summer replacement help at the Detroit Forge, on the Hamtramck boarder. Worked out of the Powerhouse on the railroad maintenance crew. GM and two different plants (Detroit Forge and Gear & Axle) that shared the same railroad yard, inside their grounds. We were responsible for maintaining all the track and switching on GM's property. Grand Trunk Railroad brought in the cars to supply raw materials and ship out finished axles. The Forge's powerhouse supplied compressed air and steam for both complexes.
After I graduated from college, went to work at the Gear and Axle plant. Took the apprenticeship test and after four years became a journeyman pipefitter. Worked there till GM sold the axle business to American Axle, in the early 90's. Opted to stay with GM and transferred to the GM Building in downtown Detroit.
GM then bought the Renaissance Center from Ford in the mid 90's. Most of us transferred to the GM Technical Center in Warren, Michigan....... where I retired from the Design building, in 2008. Had an interesting and well rounded career with GM for almost thirty six years. Went from the plant culture to an office setting, then to prototype manufacturing. Seen many GM vehicles that never made it to market. Repaired toilets for CEO Roger Smith and Don Cherry (head of deign).
After I graduated from college, went to work at the Gear and Axle plant. Took the apprenticeship test and after four years became a journeyman pipefitter. Worked there till GM sold the axle business to American Axle, in the early 90's. Opted to stay with GM and transferred to the GM Building in downtown Detroit.
GM then bought the Renaissance Center from Ford in the mid 90's. Most of us transferred to the GM Technical Center in Warren, Michigan....... where I retired from the Design building, in 2008. Had an interesting and well rounded career with GM for almost thirty six years. Went from the plant culture to an office setting, then to prototype manufacturing. Seen many GM vehicles that never made it to market. Repaired toilets for CEO Roger Smith and Don Cherry (head of deign).
JonB
Halcyon member
Around 1980, I inherited my Grandfather's 1971 Delta 88 4 dr hardtop. It had 20K miles on it and smelled of Cigars (thanks Grandpa). Anyway, I had the car totally stripped of the original crackled Lacquer paint, the body guy showed me the lead filled roofline after stripping. I was just a 17 yr old kid and never heard of that. He said GM did a poor job finishing it, so he had to redo it ...he said he wasn't crazy about working with lead...so it was gonna cost more.
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Mitty38
Well-Known Member
Bret I can only relate to my experience on this.
We did mostly custom restorations, repairs and body modifications on vintage vehicles done the "correct" way for picky customers. Basically purists, and old schoolers or kids of old schoolers, that had the mindset of no plastic filler where there was none to start. I used a lot of lead in 1989 to 1990 when they shut us down. 50 percent of what I personally did was leading. Did roof lines after removal of vinal tops , and restoration of leaded seams for vintage vehicles. We had other shops sending their lead work to us. Sometimes the car. Or sometimes just a fender, for bezel work. I would do it , coat with primer and we would ship them back for their guys to finish the car.
The Ohio EPA was pushing us for modernization. We had 2 bays,small shop. Lone of the bays was our paint booth. With a couple inside parking spaces behind the shop,for rotating our work, and the grease work. In the side of a rent a space warehouse.
My primary trade was leading and metal working, at the time,and I was good. My trade was not Bondo artist ( plenty of those around) . My work did not come cheap
We swapped tested high. They fined us.
wanted us to put in 2 downdraft booths, with moats under the floor The kind with particulate filters,you can just hose down when done.
None of us ever tested hot because we used precautions. But seams like they would always show up on the days I was finishing the lead work, and get a high swab. Of course I was pushing out lead work on about an average of 2 cars a week then.Most of it farmed to us from bigger shops, that either had no one with the skill, or just did not want to mess with it
Like I said we all had good job opportunities so it just was not worth moving, expanding, modernizing and dancing around with the EPA. Paying the fines. Or changing up completely how we did things and our customer base
I went on to do mud, work, and paint prep for a bigger body shop on the weekends. Working also in a metal polishing company.
My brother became a truck driver, and our friend got himself a job at a dealership.
We have often talked about buying an old car and fixing it together just for old times sake.
I really miss those days, and yes if you can not tell by now, I have a few regrets
Sorry if I rant but this left a sour spot in my crawl I still have not shaken over all these years.
We did mostly custom restorations, repairs and body modifications on vintage vehicles done the "correct" way for picky customers. Basically purists, and old schoolers or kids of old schoolers, that had the mindset of no plastic filler where there was none to start. I used a lot of lead in 1989 to 1990 when they shut us down. 50 percent of what I personally did was leading. Did roof lines after removal of vinal tops , and restoration of leaded seams for vintage vehicles. We had other shops sending their lead work to us. Sometimes the car. Or sometimes just a fender, for bezel work. I would do it , coat with primer and we would ship them back for their guys to finish the car.
The Ohio EPA was pushing us for modernization. We had 2 bays,small shop. Lone of the bays was our paint booth. With a couple inside parking spaces behind the shop,for rotating our work, and the grease work. In the side of a rent a space warehouse.
My primary trade was leading and metal working, at the time,and I was good. My trade was not Bondo artist ( plenty of those around) . My work did not come cheap
We swapped tested high. They fined us.
wanted us to put in 2 downdraft booths, with moats under the floor The kind with particulate filters,you can just hose down when done.
None of us ever tested hot because we used precautions. But seams like they would always show up on the days I was finishing the lead work, and get a high swab. Of course I was pushing out lead work on about an average of 2 cars a week then.Most of it farmed to us from bigger shops, that either had no one with the skill, or just did not want to mess with it
Like I said we all had good job opportunities so it just was not worth moving, expanding, modernizing and dancing around with the EPA. Paying the fines. Or changing up completely how we did things and our customer base
I went on to do mud, work, and paint prep for a bigger body shop on the weekends. Working also in a metal polishing company.
My brother became a truck driver, and our friend got himself a job at a dealership.
We have often talked about buying an old car and fixing it together just for old times sake.
I really miss those days, and yes if you can not tell by now, I have a few regrets
Sorry if I rant but this left a sour spot in my crawl I still have not shaken over all these years.
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Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
So you were in an artisan type place and it was your state guys, that explains it. I remember being "good" at things in bodywork too. Part of me wishes I'd stuck with it, but I hated trying to play catch up and never, ever getting caught up. Push, push, push and then the boss wonders why cars start coming back for stuff that never got finished!
I never did actual leading, but I've repaired a lot of it. "Bondo" got a lot better over the years and if it's done right it's just as good as anything else. I suppose there are those that can't abide it, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I suppose it's like the guys that just have to have a bamboo fly rod or only certain wine from a certain year. To each their own.
I never did actual leading, but I've repaired a lot of it. "Bondo" got a lot better over the years and if it's done right it's just as good as anything else. I suppose there are those that can't abide it, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I suppose it's like the guys that just have to have a bamboo fly rod or only certain wine from a certain year. To each their own.
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Mitty38
Well-Known Member
We had fun when working and were a great team.Never drank or horse played when working on customers cars. Did some nice work as a team. Where one fell short the other excelled.
But...
We used to take a day a week put the money makers aside, and work on our own projects. Or just go fishing.
Helping each other out, even on or off time, working out of the box.
Often on off days, we would start out with breakfast. Then to the shop with doors shut and closed sign out.
So many good memories there.
Like my brother running a forklift thru the side of my finished car, I had bought to throw a paint job on and make a quick sale. Just 4 hrs Before my dad was coming to check it out.
We did the quickest definitely wrong, panel repair ever. Bondo, cardboard, duct tape, fast drying lacquer and a heat lamp saved the day, and my brother's skin that time.
I had just finished buffing it out as dad pulled up. I ended up keeping that car. Looked good for years. Years later the patch just fell out. But the car was ragged out by then anyhow.
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Winelover
North Central Arkansas
Recycling when it wasn't PC.
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
Redid a Nomad Wagon one time.It was the run around for a contracting company.
Fellow brought it in and wanted the drivers side quarter replaced. He had the car in black primer as was a thing in that day. Said his dad fixed it but he wanted it done right. Took a look at it, it was straight as could be. It looked just like factory. Had me fooled just looking at it.
When I dug into it, I found out why he wanted it replaced. All screen, straw and plaster from the window down!!!!!?
Fellow brought it in and wanted the drivers side quarter replaced. He had the car in black primer as was a thing in that day. Said his dad fixed it but he wanted it done right. Took a look at it, it was straight as could be. It looked just like factory. Had me fooled just looking at it.
When I dug into it, I found out why he wanted it replaced. All screen, straw and plaster from the window down!!!!!?
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