A test of the Accurate 210 H cast bullet.

Ian

Notorious member
The displaced lead thing is super-important for design considerations. It takes force to swage a slightly oversized cast bullet through the throat, but we have to have slight interference in order to assure that the bullet obturates the bore. Think about how much force it will take to cram the bullet all the way into the rifling compare that to how much (or little) force it will take to bend the base of the bullet to one side in the unsupported chamber neck area. My approach is make going straight up the middle the easiest course for the bullet, or "path of least resistance". Creating a purposeful path for bullet metal to displace is sort of why we don't typically have really wide (long) driving bands. I also believe that easing the metal displacement is why bullets having very square lube grooves tend to shoot very well, and why Loverin bullets also tend to shoot well up to the velocity limit of their bearing surface.

Another thing to think about is throat wear. I found it interesting to note that after making pound casts from a variety of rifles that the throat wear tends to follow a trend. I'm far from the first person to discover this, but it was good to verify and learn what wear angles those actually are. So I designed a bullet around that and compared it to another bullet which also works in a lot of different .30-caliber rifles quite well, without needing the nose to be engraved in the rifling in order to ensure a straight start in the bore. Being able to "float the nose" is a requirement for self-loading rifles and is an extra bit of insurance against pulling a bullet when unloading a hunting rifle at the end of the day or to cross a fence. There is a lot more "technique" to getting a floating-nose cartridge to shoot straight with cast bullets than there is with one which has most of the bullet shoved into the rifling with a glove-fit, but it works just as well if you get everything just right.

The MP 312-180 Silhouette designed by 45 2.1 and the AM 31-188G designed by yours truly take all the above design considerations into account. Recovered MP SIL bullets reveal how the tapered front band folds back into the lube groove during firing, like closing an umbrella, and it does so in a very concentric manner. This allows the bullet to be sized up to .313" for a snug loaded fit in the chamber neck and still shoot well in a barrel with a .308" or even smaller groove diameter. The square band behind the lube groove self-centers very nicely and displaces metal in a very concentric manner compared to triangular lube grooves (don't ask me why that is, but recovered bullets speak for themselves). Selecting an alloy which fits the velocity and pressure as well as pressure curve (how hard/fast that front band slams into the taper of the throat) is paramount to achieving success with the .30 SIL and other designs. Low antimony alloy, heat treated, with even lower tin content works best for me with these designs due to the way the metal likes to shear and flow.
 

quicksylver

Well-Known Member
Ben ..back to your bullet for a second or two...I think that bottom large drive band on the TL design one will be/is the key to it's success..
 

popper

Well-Known Member
The displaced lead thing is super-important for design considerations I agree, found that out in 40SW. That's why I add a tad of Cu to my alloy. Like putting ball bearings in the crystal structure so when the lead moves, it flows vs shearing. Then you need a place for it to go, other than the base. Cu helps prevent the 'tails' from breaking off. Very bad for accuracy.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
that's a trailing edge problem.
it's a whole issue with plain base bullets.
I'm positive it shows up in jacketed and slick sided bullets too.

but it is basically the same issue with cast rifle bullets at higher velocity's or one with deep rifling.
if things get off a little [opening hand gesture] to one side or the other, the extra damage becomes apparent on paper, and it becomes even more apparent at higher spin rates.
 

Ben

Moderator
Staff member
Ben ..back to your bullet for a second or two...I think that bottom large drive band on the TL design one will be/is the key to it's success..

I would like to be able to tell you that I'm so smart at designing bullets that the X + Y / = the tangent of the hyp. squared = success.

But... , all that would be a lie.

Better for me to say that with a couple of people assisting me and me being smart enough to listen to their advice that I was fortunate to get myself a super accurate bullet mould.

Ben
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
if I had to do X= sumthin and times it by 2 squiggly lines I'd be screwed.
thankfully it's just pounding on some lead and measuring stuff then making the outcome of the bullet from the mold look and measure like the thing I pulled out of the gun.
if I want the cog more forward I add more nose length, if I want it moved back I shorten the nose.
the mold maker has to do all the math figuring shrinkage and stuff.
 

35 shooter

Well-Known Member
That's fine shooting Ben! Looks like it's going to be a great design for targets and hunting.
That's a good combination to have all in one bullet.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Looks like Ben came up with an excellent design. Ian may have given him a couple of hints but he did well. Congrats Ben.
 

Ben

Moderator
Staff member
Thanks Brad,

As I said earlier...........Better for me to say that with a couple of people assisting me and me being smart enough to listen to their advice that I was fortunate to get myself a super accurate bullet mould.
 

Brother_Love

Well-Known Member
Ben,
Can I order one of these from Accurate or is it an exclusive design? I would like one with both TL , 1 GC & 1 without. I really like this bullet, the weight and the style.
Thanks, Malcolm
 

Ben

Moderator
Staff member
Ben,
Can I order one of these from Accurate or is it an exclusive design? I would like one with both TL , 1 GC & 1 without. I really like this bullet, the weight and the style.
Thanks, Malcolm

Yes, when you order the form allows you to order a PB and a GC when you select mould material and number of cavities.

Tom is very nice to work with.

Ben
 

35 shooter

Well-Known Member
I really like the meplat on that bullet Ben. That ought to make a .30 cal. intoa thumper on game for sure.
Especially with that kind of weight behind it.
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Ben, Sorry I somehow have missed this entire thread!
I think that thing should be called the 31-212 Hayes (Just Like Loverin and Bator)
Love to hear if you have shot this with light target loads ( Like we usually do! ;););))
Jim
 

Kevin Stenberg

Well-Known Member
Ben have you recovered any of the fired bullets? I would really be interested in how much the 2 dia. nose increased from the pressure of firing.
 

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
That MP 180 SIL and Mihec not knowing how to cut a 30 cal. mold straight was the reason for the Accurate 31 165A and the later NOE 311-188 Hunter. With help from Run, Ian, Larry. I have one other one Ed Harris has been having a hoot with in his Enfields and Mosins. It is a Accuate 31-215b. All from listening from a few guys here when they were on other boards. I don't spend much time anymore. posting. Just reading. I can see why Ian took a rest for a long time!