Almost ready to give up…

BBerguson

Official Pennsyltuckian
On my CVA Scout 44 magnum. 3 different jacketed bullet loads from 185 to 265, 2 different lead bullets sized .429, .430 and .432, and at least 6 different powders, I think… Win 296 and AutoComp, Alliant 2400, Unique and Bullseye and IMR 4227. Two different scopes, base was taken off, cleaned and lock tighted. I’m trying one more thing, an old reliable Leopold 4X and them I’m done. The groups from everything are horrible, 2-3 inches at 50 yards. If I can’t get it to a solid inch, and that’s not that great, I’m either calling CVA or sending it down the road. Will probably call CVA and bust their a*& about it first, seems possible it could be a crap barrel… Whatever it is, one of those loads should have shot decent and none of them have.

It’s too short to be a good fence post…
 

Dimner

Named Man
That's odd. Have you had any luck with factory loads? Another thing to think about would be checking the barrel for excessive lead or copper fouling. Have you noticed any bullets tumbling? Maybe check the forearm and see if there is anyplace it's oddly pinching the barrel.

Does yours have a break on the end or a thread protector, I would remove that and give it a go for 5 rounds. Lastly, check the crown and the last inch of the rifling. Sometimes I cannot see anything with the naked eye, but then I use my cell phone/digital camera to take a pic close up that I can easily enlarge on the phone screen/laptop.

You probably thought of alot of this allready, but ya never know.
 

Dusty Bannister

Well-Known Member
Are you seating the cast bullet out to just touch the rifling? No mention of slugging the barrel, so you will not have an idea if the barrel has loose and tight spots or is reverse choked.
 

Rick H

Well-Known Member
I have a CVA Scout2 in 44 mag. and it does much better than that. I have not worked with it much because the first bullet and powder Jacketed (Hornady 240 gr. XTP and Win. 296, 1775 fps.), and cast (NOE 235 gr. RF w/check, sized .431" and 2400, 1650 fps) did all I asked of it. I did have an issue with it firing two groups, but cured that when I found the mounting screws for the factory installed scope mount were too long and the base shifted with recoil. Even shooting two groups it shot better than your results. I took about one full thread off of each mounting screw with a disk sander and cured the shifting scope mount issue. Both the cast and Jkt bullets shoot under an inch at 50 yds.
 

BBerguson

Official Pennsyltuckian
That's odd. Have you had any luck with factory loads? Another thing to think about would be checking the barrel for excessive lead or copper fouling. Have you noticed any bullets tumbling? Maybe check the forearm and see if there is anyplace it's oddly pinching the barrel.

Does yours have a break on the end or a thread protector, I would remove that and give it a go for 5 rounds. Lastly, check the crown and the last inch of the rifling. Sometimes I cannot see anything with the naked eye, but then I use my cell phone/digital camera to take a pic close up that I can easily enlarge on the phone screen/laptop.

You probably thought of alot of this allready, but ya never know.
No factory loads. I’ve shot 44 magnum for 35 years and have never bought a box to factory ammo. All of my lead bullets are coated, my avatar pic is the bullets I’m shooting. Not a single tumbled bullet yet. No break, no thread protector, crown is fine. I can’t see where there is any forearm pinch and I don’t know if this could even be an issue with a break open and the forearm attaches to the barrel. No leading, barrels good but I don’t have a bore scope. I suppose I could try shooting off my knees with no rest to see if it’s a “bench rest” issue.

I’ve thought about loading some bullets out to the lands but I haven’t yet. Haven’t slugged the barrel either but I’ve found fired bullets and they have rifling marks.

Rick, one of my loads is a Hornady 240gr jacketed HP with Win 296 and new Star Line brass.

I’ll have to check the mounting screws for length, I haven’t looked at them yet…
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Try a RNFP and see what happens.

I have a Marlin 1894C in 357 mag and almost every bullet shoots into 5” at 50 yards. The MP 359640 does better than that at 100.

That is a one bullet gun.
 

BBerguson

Official Pennsyltuckian
I just gave the barrel a really good cleaning. No leading. Loaded up 12 rounds with 9gr Unique, didn’t seat them as deep but I’m not sure how far off the lands they are. They chamber fine. New brass, CCI lp primer.

I’m going to shoot these with the rest just in front of the trigger guard eliminating any odd pressure on the barrel from the forearm. I’ll see what happens in the morning…
 

Ian

Notorious member
My AR-45 was like that, but it would shoot jacketed or Berry's plated well with any powder, just nothing cast and I tried probably 30 different load combinations with a dozen bullets. It didn't like powder coated bullets....at first. I had given up on it and took it to a suppressor shoot with a 3# coffee can almost full of powder coated hand loads. We shot the jeezuz out of it at close range and my buddy was rolling Dr. Pepper cans with it when he decided to try for the 100-yard gong. He asked me how much holdover and I said it ain't accurate enough to hit that 12" plate but it should be a dead on hold. Pop.....TINK. Hmmm. "Try the 6". Pop.....TINK. Well I'll be dipped! It holds a group within the 3 MOA red dot at 100 all day now, probably run 4-500 rounds through it since on various occasions and it continues to shoot well. You can bet I haven't so much as looked down the barrel since it first came around. What changed? Absolutely NO idea. Some things just defy explanation.
 
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CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Sorry to read all that man!!

Very unfortunate and altho I have never owned one I would if I needed. Everything I read and watch shows much praise and excellent accuracy.

A agree with suggestion to slug or chamber cast barrel. Also look @ Crown. Something we used to suggest with H&R was the hold and for stock. You know how where it rests/held when shooting. It was often sensitive to that. Hold rest as close to "hinge" as possible.
Also have ya tried shooting W/O the forend?

I have occasionally seen barrels liking even fatter bullets...

My Browning B-92 has a .430/31 bbl and dosent shoot .432 great. 2" @ 50. I assumed it was sights and me. But new dot hasnt improved that much. I have always used .430 cast (before slugging) my Buddy bought a Marlin so we slugged both and thats when I ordered .433 & .434. His is 432 BUT fatter in places as driving the slug got easy and difficult. Where mine was "even".
Now his rifle shoots .432 (biggest I had for first loads. He dosnet load 44 yet) ok surprisingly! We havent yet tried the .434 I have loaded.

If all that fails YES, contact CVA and get it sent home! Its a handy one ta have around as long as it can hit where ya aim!

CW
 

BBerguson

Official Pennsyltuckian
Much better! 1st group was 1 inch (one flyer otherwise it was one ragged hole 1/2” group), 2nd was 1.5, (no flyers and no clustered shots) Both 5 shot groups. I think it’s a combination of the hold and ammo. I’m going to dial in the overall length and get just off the lands and then go back to some different powder types and charges.

I fired a 2 shot “group” with the 240gr jacketed load and that was a solid 2.25” group, at 50 yards…. So, I think it has a lot to do with seating depth.

CW, I didn’t take the forearm off but it shouldn’t have had any effect the way I was holding today. I was holding on the steel just in front of the trigger guard, before the forearm starts and not touching the gun with my right hand at all.

I have some lead “wire” for swaging 44 cal bullets. I‘ll see if I can squash a piece to make it large enough to slug the bore.
 
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Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
My AR-45 was like that, but it would shoot jacketed or Berry's plated well with any powder, just nothing cast and I tried probably 30 different load combinations with a dozen bullets. It didn't like powder coated bullets....at first. I had given up on it and took it to a suppressor shoot with a 3# coffee can almost full of powder coated hand loads. We shot the jeezuz out of it at close range and my buddy was rolling Dr. Pepper cans with it when he decided to try for the 100-yard gong. He asked me how much holdover and I said it ain't accurate enough to hit that 12" plate but it should be a dead on hold. Pop.....TINK. Hmmm. "Try the 6". Pop.....TINK. Well I'll be dipped! It holds a group within the 3 MOA red dot at 100 all day now, probably run 4-500 rounds through it since on various occasions and it continues to shoot well. You can bet I haven't so much as looked down the barrel since it first came around. What changed? Absolutely NO idea. Some things just defy explanation.
You "seasoned" the barrel. Can't explain it, but it happens with some guns. Maybe you ironed out a spot in the throat or loosened up a tight spot someplace. Maybe it was getting a deep area filled with PC debris. Maybe something at the muzzle. Don't look that gift horse in the mouth!
 

Dusty Bannister

Well-Known Member
Sometimes a tight but lightly lubricated patch will allow you to feel drag as you pass the patch through the barrel. Slugging the barrel will tell you the minimum it takes to fill the grooves and also what the BORE diameter is. Be aware of odd numbered grooves and lands as you will get an error in your true reading.
 

Dimner

Named Man
Also, if you have the flower of Sulphur, you can do a Sulphur chamber cast. Super easy on break actions.

Another option is a pound cast. Will tell you alot more about the chamber and throat than a barrel slugging
 

BBerguson

Official Pennsyltuckian
I was able to slug the muzzle end with a 200 gr bullet. .427

I have some more rounds loaded with 9gr Unique. I should be just off the lands, closer than the loads this morning. I have 10 loaded with .429’s and 5 loaded from a box of lubed 240 gr’s my FIL bought 25 years ago.

It’s finally occurring to me that maybe, just maybe, the rifle doesn’t like stuff loaded for a pistol… Oh well, hope I’m on the right path. Will probably try the 2400 and 4227 again if these loads are as good as what I just shot this morunning.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
That's pretty freakin' tight! Did you do a pound type slug or just push the slug out the muzzle?
 

BBerguson

Official Pennsyltuckian
That's pretty freakin' tight! Did you do a pound type slug or just push the slug out the muzzle?
I tapped it in the muzzle with a brass hammer. I don’t have a rod strong or long enough to drive them all the way through.

I loaded up 10 sized .429 the same way I did the others and shot two terrible groups with them. The lubed 240’s was even worse. I may take a break from it, this is too frustrating. Maybe I’m expecting too much.

I just got a .454 sizing die for the 450 Bushmaster so I cast some bullets for that and got them painted. I’m going to load a few of them and see how they work.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Do you by chance have access to a fair supply of jacketed bullets? You might try putting 50 or 100 down the barrel and seeing if things start getting better. They don't need to be full bore magnums. If things don't improve...well, cross that bridge if you come to it.
 

BBerguson

Official Pennsyltuckian
I have 100-150 240gr and 185gr (total) loaded already with 296. These are some of the loads I’ve been testing with.

That‘s a good idea but I’m don’t want to shoot them. I’ll wait for my son to come and he can burn them up. Maybe we’ll put a steel plate up at 300 yards (or so) and see if we can lob any into it. That actually sounds like fun. Of course he could probably get closer to hitting it with a golf ball than he could with that rifle. And yeah, he can hit a golf ball that far… :)
 

BBerguson

Official Pennsyltuckian
What effect would there be from shooting too large of a bullet? Say a .432 in a .427 barrel? Could that be giving me some problems? Of course my jacketed rounds aren’t that oversized so maybe that wouldn’t be an inaccuracy issue.
 

Dusty Bannister

Well-Known Member
I am concerned that your slug was not sufficiently large to get a positive impression in the bottom of the grooves. Just because you can see marks from the rifling, does not mean you have completely filled the grooves. I believe you mentioned that you did not have a rod large enough and long enough to give a proper bore slug. When slugging the barrel, the slug must be several thousandths larger that the largest diameter. That usually means you cut off the excess as you drive the slug into the barrel. Anything less and you are probably not getting an accurate impression.