An AR 15 upgrade

Kevin Stenberg

Well-Known Member
I have been thinking that instead of buying a new firearm. I would upgrade my AR to take it from an entry level rifle to a higher quality level.
My upper is a Delton 16" 223 with a wild chamber 1 in 9 twist. My lower was a striped Anderson which i put milspec parts kit in.
What i was considering is changing the trigger to an ALG. I was going to upgrade the barrel to a Green Mountain or White Oak 18 or 20" Wild or Hbar chamber an a 1 in 8" or 9" twist.
From what i have read and watched. I will have to go to a rifle length gas system. So that means i will need a new forearm and gas port. Boy this is starting to really add up.
I would like to hear from anyone that could give me advice on better options.
 

Will

Well-Known Member
I would go Larue MBT on the trigger for sure. Yes there’s better triggers but not for $100

As far as barrels go I would take a look at ballistic advantage or Larue. I have a 16” 1-8 twist heavy fluted ballistic advantage barrel on my most recently built AR and it shoots awesome.

I have never owned the Larue but know several guys who have them and they shoot great.

No doubt the white oak barrels are good they come at a much more expensive price.

Here’s a link to the barrel I purchased. Hard to beat the their prices. They have a discount you can add when you go to check out.

https://www.graniteridgeoutfitters....SPR-Fluted-Mid-Length-Barrel-BABL223017PL.htm
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I can guarantee you that White Oak does excellent work. I have an upper made by John with a 7 twist 3 groove and another that he rebarreled with an identical barrel and also did his 1/4 X11/4 rear sight work.
Lots of top service rifle shooters will be competing soon at Camp Perry and his work will be well represented.

A trigger is worth every penny, if it is a good one. I like a two stage but not everyone does.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Two-stage Rock River trigger and an 18" 1:8 heavy barrel with mid-length gas system and free float handguard would be tough to beat.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I prefer a longer barrel and a free float hand guard on my AR's.
add in a decent 2 stage trigger and I'm a pretty happy dude.
the rest is just stuff hangin off the receiver one direction or the other.
 

Longone

Active Member
Another vote for White Oak or Compass lake. Frank has been doing this for a while as well and both of these folks have put plenty of people on stage at the Nationals.
 

Longone

Active Member
As a side note, make sure you have a quality bore guide for cleaning, it’s a long way to the chamber and you can easily damage the barrel with a poorly made guide. Also, when looking at White oak or Compass lake site take a look at what they are offering for triggers, that will tell you what the top builders use.
 

Sig556r

Active Member
20" Hbar will be quite heavy, consider fluted or socom profile.
+1 on 2-stage trigger.
Look at other caliber options while barrel shopping, you may find "better" choices other than 223 wylde for rifle length barrels (i.e., grendel, valkyrie, nosler, wolverine)
 

Kevin Stenberg

Well-Known Member
Thank you all. A lot of food for thought. The trigger will be the first to be changed. I will probably order that this week.
I have heard a lot about trigger weight. And most information i have found says 5 lbs is about write. Have there been problems with trigger weights in the 2-4 lb area?
 

Ian

Notorious member
5 lbs is about right....for a good quality stock trigger and springs.

The two-stage triggers that hook the hammer by the long end are able to have a lighter pull weight, be stronger, and more safe.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
I don't recall the trigger I put in but it was about $140 with an ambi safety included . The trigger ended up being only a fraction better than the GI parts that were just getting to full wear in polish .

I'm sold on the ARP barrel .
The rifle length gas should only need a longer tube unless you're changing the whole profile . Personally buying a "better" grade/brand barrel I would get the matched bolt for it also . While it is unlikely that you would get separate parts that weren't inside the spec's I know my luck and I'd end up with parts rattling on factory ammo or having to bump the forward assist every time .
 
F

freebullet

Guest
Well, Brad gave some solid advise. Plus he's competed in the service rifle games. But....

You didn't mention competition plans, lots of rules that will affect your rebuild. If you were having a pro build it? It seems the budget is a consideration. So, I'd suggest a less expensive route.

I've had great luck with dpms hbar & bull barrels on several. They all shot/shoot moa or better at 100. I don't know that you'll see much difference until your past 300yds, vs. the more expensive barrels.

I like a 20"bbl hbar or bull with rifle length free float tube. For the wife we go with 16"hbar & carbine free float tube.

What's your best trigger in any gun now? I do best with 2-3lb, all else is a compromise. To do that reliable in an ar, we run the jard weighted hammer fully adjustable trigger. Have 4, never any issues.

If I were going to spend that kind of $, have a pro build it, & on the best matched receiver set I could afford. You can bolt a hemi on a vespa, but it's still a vespa.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Agree with Ian on Rock River, have several of their triggers. I also prefer the midlength
gas system. Gets front sight far enough for sharp view, but keeps good gas pulse duration.
Free float is good if you use a sling, less important otherwise, IME.

Frankly :"upgrading" never seems to get very much improved performance on paper, IME.
Better trigger, better looks, sure, and better trigger makes extracting the performance
easier. But a $200 stripped lower compared to a $40 Anderson.....waste of money.
All made from same forgings, all same alloy, all meet dimensional specs. Impress
your friends with Colt or other logo, but they work exactly the same. A better grade
barrel would be my first place to spend money, rather than a lower, if I was looking for
more accuracy.

You need a good barrel, and a good BCG, but if your bolt is proper alloy, magnetic
particle inspected, milspec - why is a $150 more expensive one going to be "better"?
Many makers are selling as much sizzle as steak these days. Good milspec, mpi BCG
is all you need. I have been very happy with AIM Surplus' nickel boron nitride ones for $100, shipped.
Slick surface, easy to clean, mpi, milspec. Works great. To a large extent, the days of poor
quality AR parts seem to be pretty much gone. Watch out for poor quality scope mounting
hardware, though. Lots of junky stuff out there in this area.

In assembling a number of uppers for myself and checking headspace for others, I have never run
into a bolt and barrel set that didn't meet headspace limits. This is amazing to me. Different
companies all over the place building bolts and bbls to such tolerances that any pair will meet
headspace? Wow. Modern manufacturing is amazing, if the companies are trying and
competition in the AR business seems to be pretty fierce. Quality seems way up at the
same time prices are way down.

Bill
 
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Ian

Notorious member
I bought a stack of the AIM NiB BCGs a while back, I think they've gone up but the ARB ones at Midway etc. are also good.

Except for my SP-1, all my ARs have plastic lowers with the finish work done my be on a drill press with milling vise. They're good. Most of them have stock DPMS or AR-Stoner lower parts with ambi safeties added and a careful sear polish with wet 600-1000 grit sandpaper, no angles changed. Sear engagement controlled via setscrew in the handle bolt hole, and overtravel controlled by careful cut depth of the FCG pocket...careful because if it is insufficient the rifle will double or burst-fire. I go .010" under spec on depth. RRR two-stage triggers solve all those issues.

Uppers do matter a bit, mostly in the machining quality and finish. I'm a huge fan of Aero Precision uppers, never had a problem. AR-Stoner uppers need to be lapped with fine lapping compound and a facing lap, sometimes on the face but also using the handle reversed to clean burrs out of the inside where the BCG rides. Polishing the ridges out of the inside of the buffer tube with a brake cylinder hone, very fine stones, and transmission fluid takes a lot of the "scritch" out of the buffer spring.

A high quality barrel and proper assembly of barrel to upper is most of where accuracy is "at" (use correct Moly grease, seat the threads before torquing.... andbuy the wheeler lap, period.)
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
I have a couple of the poly lowers, including one (bought as an experiment)
with polymer internals (polymer hammer, sear, etc, steel springs). I am amazed
that they seem to work fine. Would this be my choice if going to a combat zone?
No, but seems fine on the range, so far.

IME, Rock River triggers are far better than anything you can do with a
stock hammer and trigger design. Superior design, based on Garand trigger
system, way better.

The upper, barrel and BCG is the heart of the AR, the only parts really stressed much,
or that affect accuracy. Spend your time and money there.

I have a poly kit lower, haven't milled it out yet. Need a few more round-tuits.

Bill
 
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Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Ought to be a prairie dog and ground squirrel whackin' tool of great ability.

People who keep thinking of SP-1s and M16 early models (I was one at one time!)
can't imagine how a good AR will shoot. IME, even an average bbl gun without
freefloat, with good ammo will shoot under 1 MOA, and with mixed brass, no name
gun show 55 FMJBT bullets - about 1.5-1.75 MOA. With Sierra 69 MKs and good brass,
several of mine, like my Colt HBAR, will shoot 5/8" regularly, with low power glass,
ordinary, stock, fairly crummy triggers.

I took one very ordinary budget AR with a new ACOG 4x32 on it to visit my brother,
who has access to a 700 yd range with steel gongs. We have nothing that long here,
sad to say. With Brit RORG 55gr surplus ammo, and the gun sighted in at 100 yds, I
pulled two shots at 400 yds at a rectangular steel plate, about 8" wide by 14" tall, or
so. Hit it two for two, using the ACOG 400 yd crossbar. Cool. We then shot some
other stuff out to 700, walked down to see our hits. The two at 400 were a couple
of inches apart. When we got back the wind had changed a bit, but I fired two
more at the same target. They shifted to the right about 3", and were about 4" vertically
separated. The whole group was about 5" or so. This is from milsurp Brit ammo in
a very ordinary put-together rifle with only 4X glass, albeit top quality. IMO, ARs are
generally amazing. I can see why USMC is pleased with and issuing the ACOG. This
steel plate is fairly close to the A zone of an IPSC target, meaning that from a solid
position, missing a kill shot at 400 meters is all on the shooter. The equipment is
easily capable of it.

With a bull barrel like that and match grade bullets and brass, I can't see why 1/2 MOA
won't be absolutely normal.

Bill
 
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Ian

Notorious member
My Colt shoots better than it ought to, pencil barrel, "Mattel" furniture and all. It wears one of those Colt-branded 4x1 scopes on the carry handle and runs groups averaging an inch at 100, some days better than others and depending on how old the surplus ammo is. Some of the Winchester ball ammo from the 80s is pretty good, especially rhe kind not sold as "surplus", which is another term for "lot that failed military QC tests".
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
IME, pencil bbls can be very accurate in the AR platform. My standard one is a
pencil bbl with midlength gas system, and they routinely work extremely well, even
with bargain bbls. Not like what fiver is going to get with that bull bbl, but pretty
good, and a whole like lighter.

Good brass handloads with 69 MKs is my gold standard.

Bill