Annealing Neck sized brass

[KHornet]

For what ever it is worth, thought I would mention my policy of annealing neck sized brass. I am not one to keep track of how many times cases are loaded, so when the first neck crack/split occurs on a batch or what ever cartridge, it is time to anneal.

I anneal the neck and just maybe an eighth of an inch or so down on the shoulder. As a rough estimate, and depending on the quality/thickness etc. of the brass at the neck, I probably get about 3-4 loadings per batch before I have to anneal. It occurred to me some time ago, when you are shooting cast, either PB or GC'ed, that using an expander (M-Die or similar), you are working a small portion of the neck twice at the very top of the neck twice. The same is not true (at least for me) in prepping for full power jacketed loads.

I recently annealed about 300 or more cases. They were amounts of 222, 303Brit, 7.5 Swiss, and 8x57. This is the first time I have ever done a quantity of different ctgs. Neck thickness difference was apparent between different ctgs. The 303 necks were much thinner than the other three types. Had to be real careful of not getting them to hot (red at the mouth). The 8x57 (PPU's) were much thicker necked, as were the 7.5 Swiss(GRAF) and had to be held in the flame for about a second or two more than the 303 brass.

I anneal in a darkened room with a propane torch, hold the ctg in the flame, watch for change of color, and drop them into cold water. I use a fairly slow count method (1 to 3-4) before I drop them. I know you probably don't have to drop them in water, but that is the way I was taught many years ago, and if it works, I don't fix it. Besides, I don't have hot brass on the table where I am annealing.

It is much tougher for small brass like hornet/222. Hornet brass is extremely thin, and my count is 1-2 drop, the 222/223's go to count of 3. The small ones have to be held at the very base as they get hot quick. Was probably shown this method of annealing 45-50 or so years ago. However was taught to anneal down on the body below the shoulder, and on most larger brass to some place between 1/4 to 3/8 of the brass. And this is what I do for brass that I am loading full power jacketed loads.

 

[S Mac]

Do you notice any accuracy difference with a fresh anneal versus the second firing after annealing?

 

[JWFilips]

For me Fresh anneal is a little wonky on first loading. Second loading and things mellow down. I pretty much anneal like KHornet. Darkened room & drop in water. When they are annealed they look like factory Mil brass (color about 1/4" below shoulder)

 

[KHornet]

I neck size after I anneal, then use M-die. Have not noticed any factor of accuracy on first loading, but quite frankly never paid a lot of attention to it either.

 

[Ian]

I like to "draw" a little temper into brass using a pot full of lead with as little tin in it as possible. Someone mentioned using a casting pot full of hot sand a while back, I thought that was genius but haven't needed to try it out yet.

 

[KHornet]

A few years back, I tried the dip in lead method. It worked: sort of! That said, was not overly impressed, and went back to my original method.

 

[Ian]

One thing about a torch is it will never tin your cases! I do like the degree of control you have with lead, no soft neck syndrome.

 

[williamwaco]

OK. Lets talk.
Dark Room?

I anneal in a brightly lighted space.
Stop at the first sign of color change.
The brass changes from brass color to a slight brown or bluish film appears to wash over the surface.

I cannot see the color change in the dark?

Are you looking for it to turn red?

 

[Rick]

No red! Too hot! Brass ruined if it achieves red hot.

 

[KHornet]

Rick is very much correct!

 

[JWFilips]

I have done it both ways ( & I still do based on the caliber) Both methods take good control and a good eye.
If doing it it bright light you are chasing the "temper" color ( for lack of a better word...since it is a kin to hand tempering a spring)
Remember heating brass "red" in bright light is far different then heating to a dull glow in darkness! A dull start of a glow in the dark could not be seen in bright light. Both of these methods if done right achieve the same slight temper blue just a bit below the shoulder when the brass is quenched

 

[JWFilips]

I also have another method that I didn't mention ( only because there will be some laughter).
It works best with small cases like .223
This one is done in bright light but no need to watch the colors chase.
I grab the case about 1/2 way up the body and twist it back & fourth in a small low flame of a torch playing the neck in the flame...you can count it but it is not necessary because you know when it is done because it get hot! when uncomfortable its get dropped into water You either develop a "feel" for this method or you develop blisters While not scientifically sound it really does work well for me

 

[Ian]

I don't laugh at your method at all, Jim, lots of knowledgeable folks been doing that for a long time. On bigger cases, just grab them a little closer to the neck. No need for Tempelaq, the fingers know right when the temperature is right!

Khornet, I always understood the water-dunk was to halt the heat transfer. We know the fast quench doesn't affect hardness, but brass conducts heat so fast that the case bodies could conceivably get over-annealed from residual neck heat if we didn't stop that moving heat wave in time.

 

[williamwaco]

I don't laugh at your method at all, Jim, lots of knowledgeable folks been doing that for a long time. On bigger cases, just grab them a little closer to the neck. No need for Tempelaq, the fingers know right when the temperature is right!

Khornet, I always understood the water-dunk was to halt the heat transfer. We know the fast quench doesn't affect hardness, but brass conducts heat so fast that the case bodies could conceivably get over-annealed from residual neck heat if we didn't stop that moving heat wave in time.

That is what I was taught.

We used to put them base down in a pan of water but I think that is overkill.

 

[JWFilips]

For me Fresh anneal is a little wonky on first loading. Second loading and things mellow down.

Just need to clarify my above statement:
I too neck size after annealing and expand the necks as usual before seating a bullet....but I have noticed my groups for a known load always open up a bit on my first firing of newly annealed cases. The second loading they jump back to normal

 

[freebullet]

I have a batch of 308 that was giving split necks upon sizing. I stood them in a pan of water and annealed the neck/shoulder. I used 2 torches one from each side to go down the line of brass knocking them over as each was done. Didn't loose anymore cases in the FL die.
I had read knocking them over quenching in water would harden them. I did the other half of the batch the same way standing in water but didn't knock them over. The air cooled seemed about the same when going through the die post anneal. Maybe a hair softer than the quenched.
The standing them in water method made sense to me. Just seems like an easy way to prevent annealing the case body or head. I have 8+ reloads on some 223 that never has become hardened enough to split necks. The 308 batch had been fired 5 times by me and at least a few by the previous owner.

 

[Rick]

Quenching them will not make them harder, brass doesn't work that way. The only reasons to quench are to prevent heat transfer down the sides of the case as was mentioned and, you can handle them sooner after annealing. The down side to quenching is waiting for the interior to dry.

 

[freebullet]

Thanks for the clarification Rick.

 

[Brad]

I anneal by rotating the case with my fingers. I don't get the case mouth anywhere near red hot. I have done it in a dark room to let me see if any glowing of the neck occurred.
I twist for around a 10 count then drop the case in a pile. Heads never get too hot to hold.
I don't anneal cases very often at all.

 

[KHornet]

Many years back I tried the deprime and stand in water method. Found it to be a pain in the tush. Once was about enough.