Any Luck Using Lyman or RCBS Sizer/Lubing Dies For Sizing Noses?

[yodogsandman]

Has anyone tried using Lyman or RCBS sizer/lubing dies to re-size their bullet noses? I have a couple dies that I was thinking could be used to resize the bullet noses on bore riding bullets to bore size. A .266" die to fit the bore of a 6.5 X 55 and a .350" die to fit my 35 Whelens bore. I have a couple of molds for both calibers that I have to seat the bullets deeper simply due to the noses casting over sized.

The most notorious mold is a Lee 6.5, 170gr "Cruise Missile" that's fairly new and not from the group buy. I can get decent groups at low velocity but, I get the common yawing of the bullet. I'd like to be able to tune the C.O.A.L. better, rather than seating it so deep into the powder space. I also have a NOE 270-145 that casts just a tad too big on the nose, too.

I'd like to mention that I don't want to seat the bullet so hard into the lands that the bullet is pulled out when an unfired round is ejected.

 

[Ian]

Yes.

As to the CM, the only way I ever got them to stabilize was to shorten the bullet or, as I did once, load them backwards.

 

[yodogsandman]

Never tried backwards! I have tried shortening and hollow pointing the CM bullets, though. I've shortened one of my molds but, I'm not really as good of a machinist with a hand grinder and sandpaper as I thought I was.

 

[Ian]

I did a Lee mould with a file, but only the front cavity. I drilled a new sprue plate pivot hole so the plate could be swapped to the short cavity. Hollow-pointing should have helped a whole lot, something I always wanted to try, but never got around to it. There are better designs out there.

Once I took a .285" sizing die and honed it out to give a .299" x .308"-ish trumpet bell shape. Mostly I use it for cleaning up parting lines on some POS Lyman moulds that don't cast round and don't chamber quite the same every time due to the parting line sometimes ending up right on a land. If you're doing much more than that, you risk bending the bullet slightly due to the force it takes to re-shape the nose. I suppose if you were REALLY patient, you could hone out the die much deeper than I did and make it so that the whole bullet is supported within the die as you swage it, but those lube holes can be a problem if you try to move too much metal.

 

[yodogsandman]

I have lots of 6.5 molds of different designs to play with but, half are Lyman and only cast about .265"-.266" on the bands. I need to size to .269". The Lee CM has shot the best, so far. I haven't really given the NOE molds a fair shake, yet. I decided to cut my experimenting down to 2 rifles at a time for better concentration on the job at hand. Was trying 4 rifles at a time and it was just too much. So, for this summer, the 7.62x51 and the 35 Whelen were my picks. They're the ones I hunt with most often.

The HP Lee CM bullets shot OK. I bubba HP'd them in a bench drill press and a home-made jig. I drilled 15 bullets, took the best looking 10 and reloaded them. They were certainly not drilled to the same depth each time, for sure and the drill press run out is about .003". The bullets had about a 5 gr range of weights. Not knowing how they would impact or point of aim, I shot them at 50 yards and believe I had to change the scope settings to keep them away from the top of the target, too. It does deserve another look after trying the NOE molds.

Note that all the 6.5 bullets were being resized in the case neck when they were expanded using a Lyman "M" die. I haven't gone back to try a custom sized spud (.268"), yet.

 

[fiver]

woah. YoDOG.
read what you just wrote
really, really read it.

now take a step back and think about step-1 step-2 and step-3 of what you really need to do to make ONE of your rifles shoot.
using the helter-skelter approach is getting you no-where for sure, and 4 times as fast that way.
you need to establish a baseline decent shooting load with a known measured goal in mind, then start with one rifle.
measure to find out what you really need then make/buy/borrow the tools to get there.

 

[yodogsandman]

I know. I do have decent loads that shoot under 2", 10 shot groups at 100 yards for three of the four rifles but, I can't stop trying to improve on them. My baseline has been that I've wanted cast bullets to shoot as well as jacketed bullets in all my rifles. At my shooting skill level and equipment, those three rifles will shoot thumbnail sized, 5 shot groups with jacketed reloads from the bench. These are "sporterized" Mauser war horses. As I learn a new cast bullet "trick", I try it in them all. Nose sizing would be a new "trick" for me.

The forth rifle is a Yugo SKS so, please excuse me for that one. It shoots closest to it's jacketed bullet baseline, though!

I need to update that statement above to experimenting with two rifles and a pistol (45ACP). The pistol has been lots of fun.

 

[fiver]

those .265 molds sound like perfect candidates for paper patching.

 

[Missionary]

Good morning
Last case was loading for a 414 Supermag in a TC barrel. Barrel was a 14" 41 mag re-chambered to 414 SM. The tool had a very short throat so it was either rent a throat tool or resize the bullet noses so they would not have to be seated terrible deep. The bullets are 265-300 grainers. Did not have the time to wait on the reamer so decided to resize noses. Have done it before in certain single shot rifles and worked well.
Figured out the bore diameter, dug out the proper size Lyman sizer die and started pushing the bullets nose first. Bit of trial and error but finally got everything set and sized out 50 for each bullet weight. Picking up near a half inch of powder space is a real plus when using slow powders with cast.
Mike in Peru

 

[Elric]

Has anyone tried using Lyman or RCBS sizer/lubing dies to re-size their bullet noses?

Two ways, first, find the H&I of the desired size. Worlks well.
Second, use a neck sizer bushing in an H&I die, either the top bored out to .501 so the neck sizer bushing fits, or use a Lyman .501 H&I, some teeny 1/8x1/8 pins...

http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohlandl/Cast_Bullet/Nose_Sizing/Lyman-RCBS_Nose_Sizer.html

I'm still diddling about, I have some .500 TGP that I can drill to accept a top punch, then the bullet can be ejected. Same story with thin 10mm? or 7/16? washers, use a belt sander or lathe to take the OD down to < .720 to fit under the retention nut on the Lubrisizer (RCBS or Lyman)

 

[HARRYMPOPE]

Erik at HollowPointMold might make you a copy of the Eagan "T"die.they were made to do the exact thing you ask for in the lube sizer.

 

[Josh]

I have a nose sizer from "Buckshot" it takes Redding neck sizer bushings. Give it a try and shoot him a PM. It works like a charm for me.

 

[HARRYMPOPE]

The Eagan t dies also could be ordered with a tapered section from body to nose to fit your rifles throat angle.these were "special T" dies.

 

[yodogsandman]

Thanks, I've kinda been waiting for NOE to come out with their sizing bushings and universal die set up. I know that I'm sort of resistant to getting specialized accuracy enhancing tools but, it's just for hunting rifles. I'd like to do with what I have if possible.

 

[Brad]

Something like this?
I made a few, went away from using them. The sizing section ends up a bit short and it requires more effort to size.
I went back to a Lee type sizer as I have room for a longer lead in taper.

Now if you had bushings that were around 1.25 inches long, that would work.

 

[Brad]

Think about what you want/need. The die HMP is talking about has the advantage of giving a taper to match the throat angle. That is something a traditional sizer can't do.
A nose only sizer makes sense in some cases. It certainly wouldn't be hard to make something that used the Redding neck size bushings. I would want a flat punch to use to push the nose into the sizing portion so it can self center.

 

[Ian]

Brad, totally agree on the sizing bushing lead-in length. Need a long taper. Best "adaption" of existing tech is the H-die push-through conversion.

I'm still not sold on the matching taper design for HV shooting, but it do work wonders on normal stuff as a hundred+ years of accuracy buffs and record books can attest.

 

[yodogsandman]

Yes, I've made a flat punch (1/4" bolt head) that I've been using for gas check seating that will work. In the interest of keeping it simple to see if this will help, I'll stick to the calibers (6.5mm and .35) that I have the H & I dies for (.266" + .350"), at least for now. I'd hate to do any more than necessary!

 

[Ben]

I have thirty +, .30 cal. molds right now. Since my molds are made by Cramer, SAECO, RCBS, Lee, Lyman/ IDEAL, the variations in drive band diameters , gas shank diameters, and nose diameters are " all over the place ".

Nose diameters of the molds described above vary from .299" - .304".

I have .30 cal. rifles that if you try and chamber a round with a .304" dia. nose, you won't ever get the bolt closed. In a hunting situation or self defense situation , you could stick the bullet ( with an over sized nose ) in the bore, when you withdraw the case, powder will fill the chamber and magazine box....a real mess. Basically rendering the weapon un-usable until you can get a cleaning rod to tap out the stuck bullet and get everything cleaned up. If you've loaded very many cast rifle bullets, you have probably already experienced what I describe above. If the nose is sized properly and you have the correct OAL for your loaded rounds, this will never happen. The beauty of a properly sized nose on your rifle bullets is IMPT ! for proper chambering and also an aid in the accuracy dept.

My .30 cal. rifles each like a different bullet dia. on the drive bands. However some of them have tight bores and won't tolerate a " fat nosed bullet." If the nose of the bullet gets much over .3015" there will be problems in chambering the round. I have a Springfield 1903 Sporter in .308 Win. that isn't very tolerant of cast bullets with a nose of over .301". I hope you are able to see why I ( and possibly you ) need the ability to control nose diameters.

I've always read about sizing the nose of a cast bullet, but considering the fact that RCBS, Lyman, etc . didn't sell the nose sizing dies , I just never got serious about the concept.

3 years ago, I had Buckshot make a .302 nose sizing die for me. It was solid steel that fit the Lyman 450 with the threaded ring that holds the sizer die in place. It has been useful, however I found that I also needed a .300" and a .301" diameter nose sizing die.

About 1 year ago, I contacted Rick ( Buckshot ) about making me a cast bullet nose sizing die that would take the Redding bushings . I received the die a few days ago. It works flawlessly. This die takes the Redding sizing bushings that are available from MidWay, Graf's , etc.

Here are the bushings, I chose to buy the heat treated, hardened steel bushings since they are about 60% of the price of the Nitride ones. A thin film of lube on about every 3rd bullet going into the sizer ring is all this is needed with these steel bushings. They are polished " mirror smooth".

Here is Buckshot's bushing die with a Redding .301 sizer ring in place and ready to be installed in my Lyman 450 :

 

[yodogsandman]

Thanks, I'd read somewhere about doing just as you've described, Ben. I don't remember seeing it done so well with photos, though! But, I was under the impression that you needed to use the expensive "Titanium Nitride" bushings and had brushed it off as being too expensive. Is there a washer or something to keep the bushing from being retracted with the bullet when removing?

I've had to knock a few bullets loose from chambers and I don't like it at all! I don't like the mess or the clean up after, either. I think it's best to avoid the situation.

Is Rick (Buckshot) enrolled over here? He certainly makes some beautiful stuff! I didn't know he made these!