Any one load 410?

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Im wanting to load some buck shot and maybe slugs.

I havent loaded shotshells in nearly thirty years. I still have a few MEC loaders one is setup 410.

I found supplies on a few online locations & bought a couple buck shot molds. Im still wanting two more sizes but as they are most common ( #4 & 00 ) Im wanting large multi cavity molds and all are out of stock unless you want to shop with gougers. Grr

CW
 

Intel6

Active Member
I load lots of .410 in order to feed the 8 (I think) .410's I have. I have loaded OO buck loads in the past but never messed with slugs. Been wanting to try them out but don't expect much from them. There are those newer slug moulds from Russia and they make a .410 version I have been wanting to try.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Just birdshot in 3" 410s here. I am digesting the info and data on the non-toxic shot varieties currently.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
My old H&R has a .386 full choke . A .375-.380 RB mould would make a nice RB load . Those moulds are plentiful for 36 cal BP revolvers . I have never weighed any , 100 gr maybe so just shy of 1/4 oz .
 

Outpost75

Active Member
.410 All-Brass Shells

I thought a brief how-to-do-it on loading all-brass .410s would be helpful
. I've successfully done this, fire-forming from .303 British, as well as 9.3x74R German and more recently using Magtech .410 all-brass shells from Midway. Load data, wads and assembly/crimping technique are a bit different from using modern plastic shells and wads.

In break-open shotguns, all-brass cases are easily made by fireforming from .303 British brass, which is cheap and plentiful. Charge the case with ten grains of any fast-burning pistol or shotshell powder. The powder type isn't important, almost anything you have around the shop will work. Push a cotton ball down onto the powder, fill the case up to the shoulder with Cream of Wheat, then press a Gulf wax plug into the case mouth. Fire-form the case pointing the muzzle straight up. The resulting case will be 2.25" in length. Cases should fire-form perfectly without splits on the first pop if they are mouth annealed first. Cases which have been reloaded as rifle rounds several times absolutely must be annealed first! A quickie on how to anneal rifle brass:

With Magtech brass use, 15.4 grains of #2400 powder, thrown from the RCBS Little Dandy powder measure, using the rotor #19. Place a Buffalo Arms .44 vegetable fiber 1/16” card over the powder, then two Buffalo Arms .44-45 wool felt cushion wads , LIGHTLY oiling the top cushion wad only, applying TWO DROPS of 30 weight motor oil with an eye dropper, squishing the wad between the fingers a few times to work it in, then wrapping the wad in a square of TP, squeezing it again between the thumb and forefinger to wick out and absorb the excess oil.

A .45 Schofield case holds half an ounce of lead shot to solder up a dip measure. For birdshot fill the case to within 1/8” of the case mouth, insert another 1/16” card and glue in place with Elmers. You can get a bit more shot in using the old fashioned card and fiber wad column, but my cylinder-bore gun throws better patterns using the Federal No. 410SC (1/2 oz. Skeet) shot cup over the card, pouring the shot into that and closing the shell by crimping (or gluing with Elmer's) a .36 cal. card inside the top of the shot cup, as shown in the photo below.

If you have a Lee 7.62x54R Russian seater die, you can make a more finished-looking crimp, by inserting a blank Lyman 450 sizer top punch into the seater die plug, adjusting the seating stem to position the top card, below the die shoulder, then using a .44 cal. card to fit the all-brass shell, or .36 cal. to fit inside the Federal shotcup if using that wad. You want to hold the overshot card slightly below the case mouth, as you bump the case mouth against the die shoulder to form a nicely rounded, professional-looking crimp. See the photo below.

If loading buckshot, insert a card firmly over the powder, as you did before. A Federal No.410SC plastic shotcup is used as the buckshot container and the fiber filler wads are not needed. The plastic shot cup MUST NOT be used in all-brass cases without an over-powder card, because its diameter is too small to seal the case interior. Omitting the card results in powder leaking past the wad, causing “bloopers.” After firmly seating a Federal No.410SC plastic wad, drop four 00 buck into the shot cup, then add one cast .390” round ball cast of SOFT lead on top of the stack. Adjust the seater so that the top ball is crimped positively into the end of the shell. Alternately you can load FOUR pellets of 000 buck in the shot cup, or the same number of .390" cast round balls in the brass shell with fiber wad column and no plastic shot cup.

Four .39" cast round balls total 350 grains or 0.8 of an ounce. Each pellet at 25 yards has 150 ft.-lbs. of energy, about the same as a .380 ACP pocket pistol at the same distance. If the .390 balls fall through your gun's choke and they pattern well, the improvement in energy is dramatic! I use the same 15.4 grain charge of #2400 in my gun, but it is, admittedly a "hot" load. I suggest reducing the charge to 12 grains, using Little Dandy Rotor #15 and work up cautiously.

The 1951 Ideal Handbook provides data with #2400 powder for .410 shells with conventional wad columns. It suggests thickness of the filler wad(s) should be not less than 1/2 bore diameter and not more than bore diameter. Minimum filler wad thickness in the 410 bore is 0.205 inches.

A .444 Marlin sizer die with Lee No.5 shell holder can be used to resize brass cases if necessary. Prime cases with large pistol primers. The RCBS Little Dandy Rotors #19 measures the appropriate charge of Alliant #2400. Thumb over powder card into case mouth, and slide firmly onto the powder using a dowel. Similarly seat the filler wad(s), or plastic shotcup, if used. Add shot and top card or buckshot. Glue top card or crimp, if a suitable die is available. That’s all there is to it.

Two all-brass .410s, one with birdshot and plastic shot sleeve, another with buckshot, at right is a .44-40 cartridge shown for size comparison.

Attachment: 410All-BrassShot&Ballwith44-40.jpg410AllBrassWith44-40.jpg
 
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CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
I picked up a couple hundred Cheditte hulls. None of the manuals use them. IINM they are a BPI product correct? I have a BPI manual coming hoping to find some recipes with these hulls. I was also able to find everything needed (hopefully) for loading.
CW
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
.410 All-Brass Shells

I thought a brief how-to-do-it on loading all-brass .410s would be helpful
. I've successfully done this, fire-forming from .303 British, as well as 9.3x74R German and more recently using Magtech .410 all-brass shells from Midway. Load data, wads and assembly/crimping technique are a bit different from using modern plastic shells and wads.

In break-open shotguns, all-brass cases are easily made by fireforming from .303 British brass, which is cheap and plentiful. Charge the case with ten grains of any fast-burning pistol or shotshell powder. The powder type isn't important, almost anything you have around the shop will work. Push a cotton ball down onto the powder, fill the case up to the shoulder with Cream of Wheat, then press a Gulf wax plug into the case mouth. Fire-form the case pointing the muzzle straight up. The resulting case will be 2.25" in length. Cases should fire-form perfectly without splits on the first pop if they are mouth annealed first. Cases which have been reloaded as rifle rounds several times absolutely must be annealed first! A quickie on how to anneal rifle brass:

With Magtech brass use, 15.4 grains of #2400 powder, thrown from the RCBS Little Dandy powder measure, using the rotor #19. Place a Buffalo Arms .44 vegetable fiber 1/16” card over the powder, then two Buffalo Arms .44-45 wool felt cushion wads , LIGHTLY oiling the top cushion wad only, applying TWO DROPS of 30 weight motor oil with an eye dropper, squishing the wad between the fingers a few times to work it in, then wrapping the wad in a square of TP, squeezing it again between the thumb and forefinger to wick out and absorb the excess oil.

A .45 Schofield case holds half an ounce of lead shot to solder up a dip measure. For birdshot fill the case to within 1/8” of the case mouth, insert another 1/16” card and glue in place with Elmers. You can get a bit more shot in using the old fashioned card and fiber wad column, but my cylinder-bore gun throws better patterns using the Federal No. 410SC (1/2 oz. Skeet) shot cup over the card, pouring the shot into that and closing the shell by crimping (or gluing with Elmer's) a .36 cal. card inside the top of the shot cup, as shown in the photo below.

If you have a Lee 7.62x54R Russian seater die, you can make a more finished-looking crimp, by inserting a blank Lyman 450 sizer top punch into the seater die plug, adjusting the seating stem to position the top card, below the die shoulder, then using a .44 cal. card to fit the all-brass shell, or .36 cal. to fit inside the Federal shotcup if using that wad. You want to hold the overshot card slightly below the case mouth, as you bump the case mouth against the die shoulder to form a nicely rounded, professional-looking crimp. See the photo below.

If loading buckshot, insert a card firmly over the powder, as you did before. A Federal No.410SC plastic shotcup is used as the buckshot container and the fiber filler wads are not needed. The plastic shot cup MUST NOT be used in all-brass cases without an over-powder card, because its diameter is too small to seal the case interior. Omitting the card results in powder leaking past the wad, causing “bloopers.” After firmly seating a Federal No.410SC plastic wad, drop four 00 buck into the shot cup, then add one cast .390” round ball cast of SOFT lead on top of the stack. Adjust the seater so that the top ball is crimped positively into the end of the shell. Alternately you can load FOUR pellets of 000 buck in the shot cup, or the same number of .390" cast round balls in the brass shell with fiber wad column and no plastic shot cup.

Four .39" cast round balls total 350 grains or 0.8 of an ounce. Each pellet at 25 yards has 150 ft.-lbs. of energy, about the same as a .380 ACP pocket pistol at the same distance. If the .390 balls fall through your gun's choke and they pattern well, the improvement in energy is dramatic! I use the same 15.4 grain charge of #2400 in my gun, but it is, admittedly a "hot" load. I suggest reducing the charge to 12 grains, using Little Dandy Rotor #15 and work up cautiously.

The 1951 Ideal Handbook provides data with #2400 powder for .410 shells with conventional wad columns. It suggests thickness of the filler wad(s) should be not less than 1/2 bore diameter and not more than bore diameter. Minimum filler wad thickness in the 410 bore is 0.205 inches.

A .444 Marlin sizer die with Lee No.5 shell holder can be used to resize brass cases if necessary. Prime cases with large pistol primers. The RCBS Little Dandy Rotors #19 measures the appropriate charge of Alliant #2400. Thumb over powder card into case mouth, and slide firmly onto the powder using a dowel. Similarly seat the filler wad(s), or plastic shotcup, if used. Add shot and top card or buckshot. Glue top card or crimp, if a suitable die is available. That’s all there is to it.

Two all-brass .410s, one with birdshot and plastic shot sleeve, another with buckshot, at right is a .44-40 cartridge shown for size comparison.

Attachment: 410All-BrassShot&Ballwith44-40.jpgView attachment 17427
THANK YOU THANK YOU!! Great information.
CW
 
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CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
My old H&R has a .386 full choke . A .375-.380 RB mould would make a nice RB load . Those moulds are plentiful for 36 cal BP revolvers . I have never weighed any , 100 gr maybe so just shy of 1/4 oz .
The .375" round balls weigh 70 grains in pure lead composition. 100 of these constitute a pound of lead. This is the basis of "gauge" for shotshell bores, and for artillery as well.

Most of us have heard the terms "4-pounder" or "8 pounder" used in conjunction with artillery, sometimes running to significant weights of projectile mass. What that refers to is the bore diameter of a sphere of pure lead that fits that diameter.

"Gauge" is divisions of that one-pound round ball. A 4-gauge punt gun's bore would fit a lead RB weighing 1/4 pound--about .930", if memory serves. Our 12 gauge shotguns' bores (.729") will fit a RB weighing 1/12#, same story for 16, 20, 24, 28, and 32 gauge shotshells. The .410 bore is actually about a 67 gauge, following these guidelines.

This practice of "gauging" bores and their projectiles extends to this day, and flows from this practice. The 69 caliber muskets' bore specs hew closely to the 14 gauge shotgun's specs (Revolutionary War), and the 24 gauge's specs and the 58 caliber we fought the Civil War with are pretty much in lockstep. Handgun "gauging" is similarly affected--I wrote above of the .375" RBs meant for the 36 caliber Colt cap & ball weighed 70 grains/100 to the pound, it might interest you to know that Colt's 44 caliber cap & ball revolvers used a .451"-.454" RB weighing exactly twice as much each--140 grains, of 50 per pound--therefor 100 and 50 gauges, respectively. Moving in the other direction, Colt 31 caliber cap & ball revolvers use a RB of about .313"-.315" weighing 47-48 grains.......150 to the pound. Colt's few 28 caliber C&B wheelguns used a RB of about .285" weighing 35-36 grains, so 200 RBs per pound. It isn't difficult to see how these lead RB standards became adapted from their inferential gauging to more precise decimal and/or metric bases.

To conclude--this stuff we use came from somewhere, and isn't often random in nature.
 
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CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
I picked up a .390 RB mold to try. I have a .375 single as well. Might go for a 410 as my one 410 is a chop to 20" & cyl bore.

CW
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
B2CC2BB1-1532-4996-9FFB-1CDF54836A0E.jpeg
First batch if .390 balls..

Just waiting on my roll Crimper To get started!!

I HAVE A FAVORITE 410... its a old Beretta Excelsior model. It had a rusty bore where it musta spent decades stuck in the corner of a mud floors barn. No sn and surely appears very old. Also no chamber length designations so was pre 3".
I clopped the barrel to a even length with butt when folded. About 21" or so.
Then I fit a williams peep and a Remington rifle front site as the regulation was real good also providing nice cheek weld. (D&T) It shoots RWS slugs very well.
Being a cyl bore Im thinking a .410 ish ball might be best shooting.

7BA328EC-6330-4D47-8044-240BAE0C07A5.jpeg1538C5F6-6C7D-4C4D-9B0C-A74D31578BC0.jpeg25B5ADF1-04FF-4792-ACDE-890C8E70F6D9.jpeg

CW
 
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oscarflytyer

Well-Known Member
If you are interested, my gunsmith just bought a haul of all kinds of reloading stuff. I saw one new Rem 3" hull, so I know there are more. No clue how many/how much. But if you are interested in them, happy to check.
 

Rally

NC Minnesota
View attachment 17642
First batch if .390 balls..

Just waiting on my roll Crimper To get started!!

I HAVE A FAVORITE 410... its a old Beretta Excelsior model. It had a rusty bore where it musta spent decades stuck in the corner of a mud floors barn. No sn and surely appears very old. Also no chamber length designations so was pre 3".
I clopped the barrel to a even length with butt when folded. About 21" or so.
Then I fit a williams peep and a Remington rifle front site as the regulation was real good also providing nice cheek weld. (D&T) It shoots RWS slugs very well.
Being a cyl bore Im thinking a .410 ish ball might be best shooting.

View attachment 17643View attachment 17644View attachment 17645

CW

Not likely to get very good penetration shooting those "Blueberries". Neat gun.
I've had a hankering for the new Henry lever 410, don't really need it, but intrigues me for some reason.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
I've never fired a slug from a 410. I have fired 3 x #000 Buck at coyotes, and connected on a couple of them. Ranges were 20-25 yards, 2 out of about 15 attempts was not a good batting average. Both required a finishing shot, which bothered me. 410s get all birdshot now, #9 mostly.
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Many pupu the 410... Sadly they are ignorant to it and judge as many do my size.

A buck shot pellet dosnet know its its launched at 1200 from a air gun or a 410 or a 10 ga... The difference is the pattern density. Its the ABILITY to produce a killing dense pattern and the 410 is shorter because it has less NOT AT ALL BECAUSE its under powered.

I learned years ago the 410 must be used as a RIFLE that can shoot shot at short ranges. Learn and adhere to that and this lil gem becomes a hole lot easier to like.

But surely its a niche its not and never ever will be a do it all and frankly don't need to nor is it expected to. Its a fun gun.

My roll Crimper came in yesterday too so I can start loading!!
CW
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
The 410 does well on doves and quail, I limit ranges to 30-35 yards and it harvests cleanly. The #9s stay fast enough and dense enough to do the job at that range.

The Hevi-Shot loadings might be worthy of exploration, dunno yet.
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
cheddite is by far the largest manufacturer of shot shell hulls on the planet.
they are also just goofy enough to use a primer slightly larger than American and slightly smaller than the rest of the planet [spain Russia etc.]
fortunately they are barely .001 larger than Winchester primers [which are the largest of the American primers] so you can go that route and the brisanse level is close enugh to not mess with your data.
[personally I prefer the Winchester primers]

anyway if a book doesn't specifically list cheddite hulls, but does list RIO,Fiocchi, or several other brands not made by say, anyone in America, the data will be exactly the same with maybe a slight difference in hull wall thickness or a different colored [or slightly differently shaped] base disc.
if you come up empty use federal data [use the one with the plastic base] it is a straight wall hull and of very similar hull construction and volume to the cheddite type hulls.
 

Intel6

Active Member
Big 410 shooter here. All this talk of 410 buck loads made me dust off some of my 410's and take them out. I had experimented with loading OO buck loads a few years ago and still had some loaded ammo (2.5" hulls with 4xOO buck) and I also busted out the MEC grabber and loaded up some fresh stuff with different wads to try them out. They seemed to shoot OK but they seemed inconsistent which is something I didn't notice before? I also noticed that the wads were being shredded and I was finding pieces of the petals on the ground? By what the wads looked like, it looked like the powder was blowing through the bottom of the wad? The older loads were loaded with WIN white wads and I also loaded up some fresh loads with the new style red HS wads. The newer HS wads are made out of a harder plastic unlike the Win wads that are really soft. The harder HS wads blew through also but the wad stayed more intact. I will have to do some more work on this, may need to use a card wad under the wad to keep the powder from blowing it apart. I agree the buck loads are not great out of the .410 at too far of a distance but they are fun to mess around with and when you dump 3 rounds on a target fast it dos put some lead on target.

Figured I would post a pic of some the .410's. I brought out. I have a few more but these are the most photogenic. :)

Winchester Mod 42 field grade
Remington 1100
70's era Remington 870 skeet

410 x3(2).jpg