Any one load 410?
- Thread starter CWLONGSHOT
- Start date
Intel6
Active Member
It is strange? The Win White ones are older but the red ones are brand new, neither seem like they are bad? I have loaded up some fresh test loads with some cardboard wads to see if it changes anything. I also loaded up some loads with regular shot to see how the wads turn out.
fiver
Well-Known Member
yeah it is.
I have loaded wads that I thought were on the verge of giving up the ghost a couple of times and never had any problems like broken petals or holes blown through them.
matter of fact the shells I been using all this year for dove and grouse was loaded with some Fig-8 wads I've had since the 90's that were starting to get a little powdery, no problems so far with them killing stuff, but I've only picked up 3-4 wads and looked at them.
I remember years back Remington put out a softer primer just for the 410.
anyway I have a feeling they done that to mitigate the problem your seeing.
I have a hunch the primer is burning the hole in your wad but the big shot is plugging it up once the powder gets going, giving you a pretty fair gas seal.
I have loaded wads that I thought were on the verge of giving up the ghost a couple of times and never had any problems like broken petals or holes blown through them.
matter of fact the shells I been using all this year for dove and grouse was loaded with some Fig-8 wads I've had since the 90's that were starting to get a little powdery, no problems so far with them killing stuff, but I've only picked up 3-4 wads and looked at them.
I remember years back Remington put out a softer primer just for the 410.
anyway I have a feeling they done that to mitigate the problem your seeing.
I have a hunch the primer is burning the hole in your wad but the big shot is plugging it up once the powder gets going, giving you a pretty fair gas seal.
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
Looks allot like mine! Trigger a d TG are lil different.
CW
CW
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Outpost75
Active Member
I have retained the original .410 chrome-lined, full-choke barrel unmodified. Stone killer on squirrels and turkeys. I had John Taylor fabricate 26-inch .357 and .44 Mag., .45 ACP and .30-40 Krag barrels to interchange and optionally fit this receiver, based on what handgun I am taking for a trip.
The folding rifle-shotgun packs in a duffle or 2-suiter suitcase for airline travel and has killed truckloads of game over the years. My handgun-caliber barrels all have New England Custom Gun banded ramp front sights with interchangible front sight inserts to zero and the XS ghost ring peep. In all handgun calibers I set sights to hit 1 inch high at 25 yards. This works out to 3-4 inches high at 50 yards and approximately to point of aim=point of impact at 100 yds. The .30-40 Krag barrel has a half-rib with Picatinny rail in addition to its iron sights, zeroed 3" high at 100 yards for an approximate 200-yard base zero with factory 180-grain softpoints. The scope I keep in a padded, rigid tubular metal case is a Compact 2-7X Leupold set with 200-yard zero for factory Winchester 180-grain loads. My handloads are a wee bit hotter and use Speer 180-grain Mag.-Tip with 47 grains of IMR4350 at 2450 fps in the 26" barrel for a 250-yard base zero which does everything from pronghorn to elk.
If reduced to one hunting rifle I could do well with this to the end of my days. I am 72 today, so that just may be the case. Waldeinsamkeit!
The folding rifle-shotgun packs in a duffle or 2-suiter suitcase for airline travel and has killed truckloads of game over the years. My handgun-caliber barrels all have New England Custom Gun banded ramp front sights with interchangible front sight inserts to zero and the XS ghost ring peep. In all handgun calibers I set sights to hit 1 inch high at 25 yards. This works out to 3-4 inches high at 50 yards and approximately to point of aim=point of impact at 100 yds. The .30-40 Krag barrel has a half-rib with Picatinny rail in addition to its iron sights, zeroed 3" high at 100 yards for an approximate 200-yard base zero with factory 180-grain softpoints. The scope I keep in a padded, rigid tubular metal case is a Compact 2-7X Leupold set with 200-yard zero for factory Winchester 180-grain loads. My handloads are a wee bit hotter and use Speer 180-grain Mag.-Tip with 47 grains of IMR4350 at 2450 fps in the 26" barrel for a 250-yard base zero which does everything from pronghorn to elk.
If reduced to one hunting rifle I could do well with this to the end of my days. I am 72 today, so that just may be the case. Waldeinsamkeit!
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Intel6
Active Member
So I did some more 410 shooting/testing. Since I was working hard to recover the wads as I shot them I had some interesting results with buck and even had some additional interesting results.
So with the buck the wad was getting slammed by the pressure wave and the buck was going through the bottom of the wad before it all got ejected. I see why some seemed OK while others were bloopers when I started looking at the wads.
In the pic below you on the left can see the wads blown apart and the base of the wad with the holes in them and how bad the wad gets mangled. I had some idea that that was happening (I wasn't tracking the wads and found some torn up afterwards). So I Loaded the same load with some cardboard wads (cut out of primer packaging) loaded under the wad for extra support and resistance from the powder burn. The two wads on the right are the result of that and as you can see it worked well. The loaded rounds also hit hard and there were no bloopers. Now I will get some real nitro wads and load my .410 buck loads from now on.
Since I was recovering wads I noticed something interesting with the wads from my normal shot loads. Looking at them it appears that there is quite a bit of payload setback when the shell is fired. If you look at the wads you can see the marks from the shot scoring the wads are only partially up the wad petals. When loaded the shot level is above the tops of the petal and that shows how much the shot setback when firing. Just something interesting I found and never realized.
The last interesting thing I found while checking wads was the wads from regular shot loads fired out of my 10" T/C Contender. It really shows how much the combusting powder slams the base of the wad. In normal length barrels the pressure is going down when the wad leaves the barrel and the base of the wad is normal (see pic above). What I found with the short T/C barrel was that the pressure must still be really high when the wad leaves the barrel because the blast "mushrooms" out the base of the wad as it leaves. This also shows how much pressure there is against the wad upon firing which makes sense when looking at the OO buck load wads with no card wads.
So with the buck the wad was getting slammed by the pressure wave and the buck was going through the bottom of the wad before it all got ejected. I see why some seemed OK while others were bloopers when I started looking at the wads.
In the pic below you on the left can see the wads blown apart and the base of the wad with the holes in them and how bad the wad gets mangled. I had some idea that that was happening (I wasn't tracking the wads and found some torn up afterwards). So I Loaded the same load with some cardboard wads (cut out of primer packaging) loaded under the wad for extra support and resistance from the powder burn. The two wads on the right are the result of that and as you can see it worked well. The loaded rounds also hit hard and there were no bloopers. Now I will get some real nitro wads and load my .410 buck loads from now on.
Since I was recovering wads I noticed something interesting with the wads from my normal shot loads. Looking at them it appears that there is quite a bit of payload setback when the shell is fired. If you look at the wads you can see the marks from the shot scoring the wads are only partially up the wad petals. When loaded the shot level is above the tops of the petal and that shows how much the shot setback when firing. Just something interesting I found and never realized.
The last interesting thing I found while checking wads was the wads from regular shot loads fired out of my 10" T/C Contender. It really shows how much the combusting powder slams the base of the wad. In normal length barrels the pressure is going down when the wad leaves the barrel and the base of the wad is normal (see pic above). What I found with the short T/C barrel was that the pressure must still be really high when the wad leaves the barrel because the blast "mushrooms" out the base of the wad as it leaves. This also shows how much pressure there is against the wad upon firing which makes sense when looking at the OO buck load wads with no card wads.
Rally
NC Minnesota
Intel6,
Your Rem 110 reminds me of the one I traded away after leaving Texas. Shot tons of dove with it and is probably the gun I most regret trading away.
I think you are misreading what the wads are doing in the Contender. Looks to me like the gas is blowing by at ignition and scrubbing the bore all the way down until exit. If they were indeed "mushrooming" on exit at the muzzle, the inside, now outside lip of the wad would have powder residue on that lip/gas seal. The one wad, a portion of the gas seal lip didn't "mushroom", and look at the angle of the wads body/ twisting.
The length of the shot column to bore diameter in the .410 is an unforgiving chamber, and really gives the wad a workout. Any chance the bore diameter of the contender is over sized?
Your Rem 110 reminds me of the one I traded away after leaving Texas. Shot tons of dove with it and is probably the gun I most regret trading away.
I think you are misreading what the wads are doing in the Contender. Looks to me like the gas is blowing by at ignition and scrubbing the bore all the way down until exit. If they were indeed "mushrooming" on exit at the muzzle, the inside, now outside lip of the wad would have powder residue on that lip/gas seal. The one wad, a portion of the gas seal lip didn't "mushroom", and look at the angle of the wads body/ twisting.
The length of the shot column to bore diameter in the .410 is an unforgiving chamber, and really gives the wad a workout. Any chance the bore diameter of the contender is over sized?
Rally
NC Minnesota
It appears to me looking at the last three wads shot in the Contender, like the lip had reversed and scrubbed the bore on the way out the barrel. The HS series are suppose to be a tougher plastic, for the tapered internal base hulls. I think the gas seal is suppose to be deeper also, but I don't have any HS to compare it with. Wonder if he was using straight wall hulls?
I understand the shredding of the wads with buckshot, the pressure forms the wad to the shot and fills the voids, I've even seen that with 12ga. WAA12R and SP12 wads with 3x3 00 buck, but have never seen them come through the bottom of the wad before.
I understand the shredding of the wads with buckshot, the pressure forms the wad to the shot and fills the voids, I've even seen that with 12ga. WAA12R and SP12 wads with 3x3 00 buck, but have never seen them come through the bottom of the wad before.
fiver
Well-Known Member
that's why I mentioned the primer.
I know a sinewave of pressure comes up through the wad and hits the shot but that's more like a blast type pressure wave, it wouldn't or shouldn't make a hole, unless the plastic there was really thin and brittle.
maybe shatter bismuth or distort soft lead some but not melt plastic.
I know a sinewave of pressure comes up through the wad and hits the shot but that's more like a blast type pressure wave, it wouldn't or shouldn't make a hole, unless the plastic there was really thin and brittle.
maybe shatter bismuth or distort soft lead some but not melt plastic.
Intel6
Active Member
Yes, the 1100 was something I had wanted for some time and while the 42 is nice the 1100 is just a great shooter.
I was also thinking that the diameter of the bore may be letting that happen in the barrel but there is one thing about the T/C barrel that lead me to believe it was happening after leaving the barrel. The T/C has a type of screw in "straight choke" that has very prominent vanes in it to stop any rotation given to the payload by the rifiling as this is a 45 Colt/410 barrel. The vanes of the wad protrude into the barrel and put a distinctive lines on the wad. If the wad base was mushroomed in the barrel I would think the lines would be on the folded over edge? The other thing is that it could be mushroomed in the barrel, pushed back flush by the choke then mushroom back out after exiting? Also I noticed that there was quite a bit of muzzle blast/unburned powder/orange fireball from the short barrel when fired so that is what made me think the base was getting mushroomed upon exit.
Intel6
Active Member
Yes the HS wads are tougher/harder plastic and that is why I was using them for the OO Buck loads. Since I was using them I also used them for some shot loads. These were loaded in the black Remington tapered unibody 2.5" hulls as I tend to collect up quite a few of them. I didn't load any of the old stock win wads I had but since they are softer plastic I am sure they would have been in worse shape after being fired in the T/C barrel.
Intel6
Active Member
After looking at some of the initial wads I definitely think you were on the right track with that initial pressure bump. After seeing the wads I collected above it seems that it is the issue. That is why I figured the extra card wad would help put off the blast and help keep the bottom buck from coming through it.
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
Im taking notes here..
Its gonna be a lil time till I can hit the range and hunting season is upon us then kakaold weather. So might need ta get shelved. But for these shortages.
No one has defensive 410 in driving distance. No one on line I can find with regular prices has it either. Im able to load but without knowing what works... Im hesitant.
cw
Its gonna be a lil time till I can hit the range and hunting season is upon us then kakaold weather. So might need ta get shelved. But for these shortages.
No one has defensive 410 in driving distance. No one on line I can find with regular prices has it either. Im able to load but without knowing what works... Im hesitant.
cw
Outpost75
Active Member
My normal practice in either all-brass Magtech .410s, fire-formed .303 British or 9.3x74R, or old military M35 aluminum survival gun cases, is to use a .45-70 Buffalo Arms card wad over the powder charge, before inserting the shot cup. If not using a plastic shotcup in order to load more shot, then I use two Ox-Yoke Originals lubricated felt .45 black powder wads over the card wad. Alternately a 1/2" Ballistic Products or Alcan fiber wad. You can load three 000 buck in a 2-1/2" shell with shotcup or four .390 balls in 3" shell without shot cup, using 15 grains of Alliant #2400 or 17 grs. of IMR4227.
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
THATS WHAT IM LOOKING FOR!
Outpost75
Active Member
Please report your results and show pics of patterns. Here are mine from cylinder bore H&R Garden Gun ca. 1910.
Below 3-pellet 000 buck from 2-1/2" Magtech shell, and 4-pellet 000 buck from a fire-formed and reloaded RWS 9.3x74R (2-3/4") case.
Using the same 17 grain charge of IMR4227 that I load in the .44-40.
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