Attn Target readers

[S Mac]

I have a feeling that operator error is the main culprit, shooting my Contender 44Mag this is representative of the group's I get, although sometimes worse. This is off a bench with a steady rest. I have tried a variety of loads, bullets. I'm afraid to back up to 100, probably won't be on paper. I would like to hunt with this guy, need to do better than this. Maybe I'm flinching, don't think so, good hearing protection and manageable recoil. Anyone have suggestions?

 

[fiver]

more details.
first shot,,, last shot.,,, lube.
15-2400 seems awful light to me [44-40/41 mag load actually] how much trash are you getting in the barrel from it.

 

[Ben]

Steve :

Seems odd that you've got 3 in a nice neat group and the other 2 are " wild " ? ? Shoot that same bullet with 11.0 grs. of Unique and report back.

Ben

 

[S Mac]

Tell you the truth, I can't really see the holes until I go to change the target, maybe if I used a while one I could see the order of shots.4 x scope in the shade. I know it's a fairly light load. Lube is a corrupt version of Ben's Red.

 

[S Mac]

Steve :

Seems odd that you've got 3 in a nice neat group and the other 2 are " wild " ? ? Shoot that same bullet with 11.0 grs. of Unique and report back.

Ben

I do have a antique can of Unique, could try that.

 

[Winelover]

What size are you sizing to? What dies are you using? I had eratic issues with 44 Mag, till I went to neck sizing with RCBS Cowboy sizing dies. I was sizing to .433 diameter.

https://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/what-a-difference-a-die-makes.3826/

 

[S Mac]

Sizing to 431. Just slugged the bore, think I need to hone a sizing die to .432- .4325 or so. I also got to thinking, tight wad me using unknown # firing brass may be part of it. Got a couple of hundred new Starline. Maybe enough variation in neck tension in the old brass to be erratic on the target.

 

[Winelover]

Try upping the charge of 2400 to around 18 grains.

 

[S Mac]

Good suggestions all. Better stick to changing one variable at a time.

 

[358156 hp]

Contenders have a rich history of overly long, overly large throats. Since its essentially a short rifle, have you slugged the throat yet?

 

[Rick]

First thing I would look at with that Tender is the chamber/leade. A chamber cast could well be your friend here,

 

[Martini 38-55]

Since the subject is Contender accuracy, I won't really be hijacking the thread to relate a story from one of my shooting buddies. She bought a Contender with a 357 Magnum barrel to use for deer hunting here in Iowa. Unfortunately, she couldn't get it to group inside a dinner plate at 50 yards, and sent the barrel back to TC. They looked at it and returned it, saying that it met their accuracy standards. She shot it again, found the same results on target and brought it to me to see if rechambering it for Maximum would help the situation. Before cutting any metal, I took a very close look at it, and then did a chamber cast. The chamber was offset to the bore by about 5 or 6 degrees, with the throat shorter on one side than the other. She sent it back to TC and called the repair dept. head and reamed him a new one on the phone. He got the barrel, looked at it and agreed that it was not right, and sent back a new one. She shot this one, and same situation on target, but not quite as bad. I looked it over, and the chamber was off by less, but it was still off. Back to TC this one went, and man, she was p.o.'d! Yes, she got a new barrel , this time from the custom shop and took it to me before wasting any ammo on it...it was off, too. At this point she was ready to throw the whole thing in the lake, but I talked her into letting me reline her barrel with a piece of Douglas 14" twist barrel I had that was long enough for the job. Long story shortened, the new barrel liner, loctited into place, regularly puts five shots into an inch at 50 yards with her handloads.

 

[KeithB]

I'd be curious to find out exactly what type of equipment they use to chamber Contender barrels and how they line the barrel up. Is it in a lathe or a milling/boring machine? What do their fixtures look like? - "chamber was offset to the bore by about 5 or 6 degrees" - Honestly, with the right tooling and setup procedures this just shouldn't happen.

 

[Brad]

I don't recall where I heard it but it seems I remember being told they damn near held the barrel in a vise and drove the reamer with a drill. Not a good way to get anything straight.
I know Rick has often said they had throats all over the place with long and deep being the norm in some cartridges.

 

[Rick]

There is a reason they are nicknamed Linda Lovelace barrels. And besides deep throats as was mentioned chambers are often not aligned with the bore, rifling starts on one side well ahead of the other side. But even as common as these issues are there is no shortage of really fine shooting Contenders. I've often wondered how but many of them shoot quite well. Before this turns into a Contender bashing thread it has to be said that not all T/C barrels suffer from these shortcomings but they are common enough to be well known. J.D. Jones, Fred Smith and others have earned a fine living making aftermarket Contender barrels for a reason.

 

[Martini 38-55]

It seems to me that getting that much offset would require a very undersized pilot on the reamer. All I know is that it was not just a single Whoops! chamber.

 

[bns454]

More 2400 if it has correct bullet fit.

 

[KeithB]

It's frustrating to find a useful, innovative item with a number of outstanding features be flawed by poor execution of one of the most critical points. The thing is, it's just not that hard to do. The mechanical tolerances are not that much different from the tolerances allowed for thousands of other common items.

 

[fiver]

Remington manages to do the same thing, they are also starting to cut their throats long enough to seat a bullet in them without the case touching it.
I'm pretty sure I even accused them of having a reamer turning in a pipe thread machine and feeding their barrels on them by hand a couple of times.

but yeah no sense bashing either company, Marlin before the buy out was putting something that looked like umm well it was like a big ball reamer was run in front of their chambers and we manage to get them to shoot.
I had a discussion with Michael [ranchdog]about that one time and of course his bullet designs are meant to deal with that issue.
he worked around it by hanging the radiused nose out across that gap as far as he could and still get them to feed through the lever guns.
which oddly enough was the same solution I had come up with for mine.

 

[Ian]

Bench vise and a Makita.

First, check the chamber. Next, check your ammo fit in the chamber, and check that your bullets are seated straight in the cases....I bet they aren't. You can roll the ammo on a flat surface while looking at the daylight gap under it, mark the high spot, index that to a place in the barrel and shoot a group. If the group becomes more of a round pattern and tightens up, you know it's an ammo problem.

Someone here recently posted a thread showing how much groups improved my neck sizing the straight-wall brass and not sizing the necks any more than necessary to hold the bullet.