Back to Casting!

seagiant1

Active Member
Hi,
Have not casted for awhile but hopefully have a 10" Barrel with Iron Sights, for my TC Contender in 44 Mag in the works, and...

Noticed I had no bullets, so...

Pulled out my RCBS 44-250-K 2 Cavity and started up.

Took a little while to get the band corners as sharp as they should be and still wondering if I can do better?

Might take a boolit and lap the mold cavities, with some JB Bore paste, just so the Boolits will fall out on there own, even though a tap with my hammer handle, pops them right out.

Here are some pics if anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears!
ooo1.jpgooo2.jpgooo3.jpgooo4.jpgooo5.jpg
 
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Ian

Notorious member
I'd shoot most of those in the photo no problem unless I was benching it for paper groups at 100 yards or more. Maybe run the mould a touch hotter (faster) and turn the flow down just a little so it is just above a dribble, and pour a generous sprue puddle. The mould looks worn out at the parting line and the noses appear elliptical.
 
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seagiant1

Active Member
I'd shoot most of those in the photo no problem unless I was benching it for paper groups at 100 yards or more. Maybe run the mould a touch hotter (faster) and turn the flow down just a little so it is just above a dribble, and pour a generous sprue puddle. The mould looks worn out at the parting line and the noses appear elliptical.
Hi,
Well the Mold is not that old, maybe I will get a toothbrush and scrub it good.

I'm sure it's probably operator error, been awhile, since I cast some Boolits ,and why I asked for suggestions!

THANKS!
 

seagiant1

Active Member
I would take Ians advice. Before modifying anything. You can't go back if you make the cavity oblong.
Hi,
I will take you're advice, and wait, but using JB Bore Paste, and taking it easy, you will not really remove any metal. Thanks!
 
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Ian

Notorious member
I doubt it needs cleaning judging by the bullets, but that parting line is huge, like someone scrubbed off the sharp edges of the cavities with a wire brush. Mic the diameter of the noses and body near the parting line and 90 degrees from it to see if what I'm seeing is actually true. The noses look like the cherry didn't cut full depth in either block.
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
I agree with Ian and Kevin. If it were my mould and my bullets came out like that (not all that bad), I'd do what Ian said - get the mould hotter and make bigger sprues. Scrub if you want - it can't hurt if you're not removing metal.

To quantify "bigger" sprues, somewhat, I strive to join all my multi-cavity moulds' sprues into one large one. They're easier to pick up that way too. When all the stars align, alloy temp, mould temp, intervals between pours, etc., you can form a pretty substantial sprue without having it run off the sides of the mould.

When I think about it, it's still hard to imagine it's happening - the cavity drawing from the sprue puddle, but it works, not just filling bases out, but corners too. Maybe metal isn't really running all the way from the sprue puddle to the corners of the mould's profile, but a big puddle is more mass, holding more heat longer, letting things fill out. My one bullet of that same basic shape is a 1C Ideal 429421, which gave me fits hen I first found it. I was ladle-casting at the time, and then bottom-pouring made it even more frustrating. I continued to ladle that one mould for quite a wile before it dawned on me to pour as big a sprue puddle on the sprue plate as I could and now I cast just fine with it.

I tried to weigh one of my 6C 22 cal sprues a couple weeks ago. This is SIX sprues joined together. It was WAY too much for my little 5-0-5 scale (tops out at 500 grains) to measure. I get either 300 or 330 grains' worth of bullets from each of two different 22 cal, 6C moulds, and the conjoined sprue weighs probably twice what the bullets do. I used to feel like remelting more than I got in bullets was inefficient, but rounded bases are a big no-go to begin with, because they are not consistently round and not necessarily concentric to the side of the bullet. Rounded corners on a 22 constitute a significant percentage of weight, and again, the form is going to be inconsistent. Well-formed 22 bullets shoot well. Those with an amorphous profile most assuredly won't. Not as big a deal as the diameter and volume of the bullet grows - or as the range lengthens.

Fair warning to a new member (and welcome here, by the way), that just because I type more than most everyone else when I post does not mean I am any (or at all) smarter than anyone else. I just take longer to say something - which you can and should test for yourself, because I have my own "superstitions" about casting which may or may not work - especially on a cursed of possessed mould, most of which, from my collection, I have exorcised of exiled by now. Two were actually drawn and quartered once (both Lees), and I may possibly have been mistaken about their actual guilt.
 

Ian

Notorious member
I think a lot of folks run their alloy too hot and the alloy is so thin that it won't build a thick puddle like Jeff described. The hottest I ever run regular ternary alloy is about 750 and usually closer to 700. It starts to get thick around 675 unless you add a bunch of tin which isn't what I do most of the time. 750 is for big blocks with small bullets. Lots of tricks to manipulating bullet size, fillout, keeping your production rate up, and all that, but mostly it boils down to MANAGING HEAT: Mould blocks and sprue plate, ambient, and alloy temperature all need to be controlled or adjusted for to get best results and you just have to monkey with casting pace, sprue puddle size, alloy flow adjustment, alloy temperature, and sometimes even fans until you find what the mould likes. Then, sometimes the mould itself has venting problems or a sprue plate that's too tight or loose, has alignment problems, venting problems, etc. that can drive you nuts.
 

seagiant1

Active Member
Hi,
Thanks, I measured the bases of the Boolits and from side to side they run .431 and .4303 so pretty close to me and I did a few boolits just pulled from the pile.

There is a part line on some but not all...

I will scrub the mold with a tooth brush and check everything on it I can...

Admittedly I just sprayed some carb cleaner on it, wiped it down, lubed it when hot off the Hot Plate and started casting.

Probably will work on it again tomorrow, if I can, cause now it's got me interested, if I can make it better!

the camera did not want to focus, but got another pic of the noses and did not try to measure that because I really saw no way to get it in the exact same spot with the cone of the nose to really tell me anything conclusive?

Oh yea, I forgot to mention, used a Mic and not Calipers!
abc.jpg
 
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Jeff H

NW Ohio
Hi,
Thanks, I measured the bases of the Boolits and from side to side they run .431 and .4303 so.....
Phone cameras can play tricks on you. I studied them after Ian mentioned it and could see what he was talking about. On the very left side of the top ,left photo, just past half-way up, there's a bullet that looks like someone glued two halves together form two different alloys. I have a cheap phone, so mine can REALLY mess with the image you get.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
mm,,,mmm.
check the alignment pins, one is sticking out slightly further than the other.
like super slightly, but just enough to make the bands not line up perfectly.

and yeah it'll make a mold do that.
 

seagiant1

Active Member
Hi,
The RCBS, does not really have pins like a LEE 6 Cav., but maybe spheres???

Not saying they could not be off just saying nothing really to get out of alignment and they close smooth like a bank vault.

I'll check them tomorrow though!
nnnnnnnnnnn.jpeg
 

Wheelgunner57

New Member
You do lose definition on the lube groove lands when your mold over heats. I have a computer fan that I park my mold under to cool it down when that happens. Big bullets tend to heat a mold up fast. If your pot will flow at 700, try that. I have that same mold and it does overheat quickly.
 
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seagiant1

Active Member
Hi,
Well, after building my PID Controller, I can actually KNOW what temp my alloy is at, rather than guessing.

I try to stick as close as possible to 700 degrees but have a MP 4 Cav. 9MM Mold that just won't cast that low.

At 700, it gives wrinkled surface bullets but at 720, everything was good.

Of course this was on a chilly day, so might of been the reason, but something I noticed, thinking first my cavities were maybe dirty?

Part of the "fun", I guess, of casting, and why I now keep notes ,on each casting session, on each Mold!
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Wrinkled bullets are most often from a contaminant on the molds or temp problem. But when we say temp problem we speaking to mold temp 98% of the time.

700° is smack solid in "proper" alloy temp.
If Im casting a really large Brass/steel mold I might up the temp some. But thats rare occurrence for me. But we all have our favorites.

Id clean that mold out with a few blasts of brake cleaner and set it back on the hot plate for a spell.

CW
 
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Wheelgunner57

New Member
Brass molds with small cavities need a good preheat. Mold temp is what drives bullet quality. Alloy temp can help keep a mold in It's temp sweet spot and with a p.i.d. you stand a good chance at it if you do a good job of pre heating the mold. Lately i have been trying to keep my bullets on the edge of frosty but still shiny and sharp.
 
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seagiant1

Active Member

Wrinkled bullets are most often from a contaminant on the molds or temp problem. But when we say temp problem we speaking to mold temp 98% of the time.

700° is smack solid in "proper" alloy temp.
If Im casting a really large Brass/steel mold I might up the temp some. But thats rare occurrence for me. But we all have our favorites.

Id clean that mold out with a few blasts of brake cleaner and set it back on the hot plate for a spell.

CW
Hi,
I had actually already cleaned it twice, and not fixed the problem...

Until I upped the temp.

As I said, was a chilly day and I cast outdoors, so...

That might of been something in play, but...

Started getting great bullets after going a little hotter!

Casting is interesting, like Martial Arts, you are never as good as you can be, and always something new to learn!
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Brass molds with small cavities need a good preheat. Mold temp is what drives bullet quality. Alloy temp can help keep a mold in It's temp sweet spot and with a p.i.d. you stand a good chance at it if you do a good job of pre heating the mold. Lately i have been trying to keep my bullets on the edge of frosty but still shiny and sharp.

Bingo . . . .

700 degree pot temp is over 100 degrees over liquidus of most any bullet alloy. Nearly 200 degrees over antimony/tin alloys. If that doesn't keep your mold at a Goldie Locks temp it's your technique, not the pot temp.