Barrel cylinder alignment

[Brad]

I have a Ruger BH in 357 that I bought used. Got it home, cleaned the lead from the bore, and found a nice ring in front of the frame.
I recently got a frame wrench and inserts to fit the gun and made a barrel vise. Got the barrel removed, far easier than I expected.
TodayI made an insert that threads into the front of the frame. I replaces the barrel. The hole was reamed with my .358 cylinder throat reamer so I know it is .358. All throats take a .358 pin but none take a .359.
Theory is that is the cylinder throat lines up the the centerline of the bore then a .358 pin slides thru the gauge and into the throat.

Yah, theory is good, reality not as much. A couple throats accepted a .354 pin but I had to go .353 to get all of them to accept the pin. Centerline of the bore is definitely lined up with the throats! The cylinder locks up tight enough that wiggling the cylinder doesn’t make it any better.

You can easily see the little crescent where the misalignment occurs.

Dan and Mountain Moulds did something similar if I recall correctly. He threaded the barrel a bit offset to get the bore centerline in line with the throats. Not sure I want to go that route.

 

[fiver]

cylinder needs to rotate further.

 

[Brad]

Which mean a little work on one side of the cylinder stop.
Need to buy a spare first.

 

[Ian]

Just stone the right side of the bolt a little. The new part you need to worry about getting is the hand, which is too short...unless you are comfortable trying to stretch it (much easier than fitting from scratch but requires some processes).

I also see that the barrel is ever so slightly low on that one hole at least. The way I understand it, that will be worse under recoil as the cylinder jumps up and to the rear, taking up the slack in the base pin and frame, plus some flex in all the parts.

If the chambers are within a thousandth of all taking the same gauge and the majority of the misalignment with the frame hole is in the same direction, it may be easier to leave the works alone and do it like Dan by offsetting the barrel tenon the required amount and direction.

 

[Ian]

This reminds me of rebarreling my Savage 1899 and discovering that the bolt face wasn't flat in the least nor was it anywhere near square with the receiver face at full lockup. These are things we find when digging too deep and asking too many questions. I could never make it as a gunsmith because letting stuff out of the shop where everything wasn't perfect would drive me crazy.

 

[freebullet]

Real interesting, Brad. The used bh357 we picked up doesn't align the cylinder for ejection. We got a power custom hammer that will fix that, & give it half cock. I probably should tighten the lock up, ain't got the tools to dig as deep as you've gone on alignmemt.

 

[waco]

This reminds me of rebarreling my Savage 1899 and discovering that the bolt face wasn't flat in the least nor was it anywhere near square with the receiver face at full lockup. These are things we find when digging too deep and asking too many questions. I could never make it as a gunsmith because letting stuff out of the shop where everything wasn't perfect would drive me crazy.

Stuff like that bugs you?

 

[Brad]

Bugs me, I hate textured walls.

I think a little more rotation will take care of it.

 

[358156 hp]

Have you checked your new barrel to see if it's cut concentric? And how much play do you have in the bolt stop? I've seen a number of Ruger SAs with stupidly loose bolts. Fitting an oversized bolt stop isn't really a huge task. Power Custom is my go-to guy for revolver action parts, and he also has a lot of how-to videos on Youtube to help out.

 

[Brad]

This bolt stop is locking up pretty tight. I actually want it a little loose so the cylinder can rotate into alignment with the bore.

No new barrel. Yet. Looking to get that before too long.

 

[358156 hp]

I don't think Walter was talking about the textured walls. The lines..... they're staring at me!

 

[Brad]

I don't think Walter was talking about the textured walls. The lines..... they're staring at me!

I know. That would bother me.

Ian would tear out the walls and start over.

 

[Brad]

Looking at a 14 twist Shilen blank.

 

[Ian]

Brad, I think Bob was asking sbout how tight the lock bolt was in the frame itself, not about lockup. Ive peened frames and bolts both on SAA clones to snug them up and help alignment. It looks to me like at least 90% of the misalignment could be fixed by working the bolt and hand.

I would lose my bananas having to look at that drywall abortion. This coming from the guy who sent at least half a day going through boxes of 16" ceramic tile and arranging patterns in the store, then marking them all on the back and buying only the minimum extra to make an even box quantity. It looks GOOD though. There's a restaurant in town with a huge foyer done in the same tile, but randomly layed and it drives me nuts.

 

[Brad]

Haven’t looked at fit in frame for bolt stop. Should have this weekend, gonna be a good stay home kinda weekend with the snow.

I can see what Jim said about slop. Tight fit is great when it all lines up but if it is off then tight just doesn’t work,

 

[Ian]

Yep, I tend to agree with him on the wiggle too, need just a teensy bit in all directions and preferably an equal amount in all directions from bore centerline. I know someone else who also has my highest respect on these matters who maintains exactly the opposite. Thing is, I don't think I own any revolvers capable of being made perfect or maintaining perfect with much use, so a little slop is necessary.

 

[Bret4207]

I would lose my bananas having to look at that drywall abortion. This coming from the guy who sent at least half a day going through boxes of 16" ceramic tile and arranging patterns in the store, then marking them all on the back and buying only the minimum extra to make an even box quantity. It looks GOOD though. There's a restaurant in town with a huge foyer done in the same tile, but randomly layed and it drives me nuts.

Which is why many of my projects remain at the 90% done stage! It bugs me less to see the job 10% away from being finished than to see it finished with glaring (to me at least) flaws. In my defense, most of that 10% unfinished stuff is due to the supplier, usually Lowes, discontinuing a product and my needing just a little more of it. Drives me nuts.

And I agree, that misalignment can be corrected with the judicious use of files, stones, hammers and punches. Nontes "Pistolsmithing" book and most of the older tomes cover stretching a hand and altering the locking bolt.

 

[Jeff H]

...............This coming from the guy who sent at least half a day going through boxes of 16" ceramic tile and arranging patterns in the store, then marking them all on the back and buying only the minimum extra to make an even box quantity................/QUOTE]

That's normal, isn't it? I went through 400 board feet of cypress to find sixteen 8" x 12" raised panels for a blanket chest.

 

[Jeff H]

..............most of the older tomes cover stretching a hand and altering the locking bolt......

I've stretched ONE Ruger SA pawl - a very few thousandths. I was leery about doing it because Ruger parts are supposedly all through-hardened and I wasn't keen on annealing/re-hardening it, so I took a chance on doing it cold. It took a lot of taps to get that few thousandths but the pawl never broke with subsequent use.

I've switched out quite a few OM and NM BH hammers for SBH hammers (small hands, short thumbs), and it was not infrequent that the replacement SBH hammer introduced new tolerances which were not quite perfect, but the surplus of pawls, cylinder stops and triggers which had accumulated over time (two to three of each) left me with a mix-'n-match combination of parts which could be assembled and tried.

The last one I did/plan to do (Flat Top 44 Special) originally required significant over-cocking to get the bolt to fall into the notches on the cylinder after the sear engaged. It was annoying and if I was working slowly from the bench, the cylinder misalignment made a mess of the gun and target. I got very lucky on the SBH hammer it took me three calls to catch in stock, because it had the cylinder coming up short - bolt fell into the notches before the sear engaged. A previously too-shortened trigger, which I thought I'd ruined a few years earlier, and some judicious stoning/re-assembling/trying with the pawl left me with the most perfectly timed Ruger SA I'd ever owned. That was all dumb luck and a "sign" that this was the ONE I'd always waited for. I don't remember all the details, since it's been a few years, but it took some time and patience. I have limited tooling and skill for metal-work, so it always takes time, but my gunsmith and my dad both retired many years ago.

Interestingly, this 44 Special was a replacement for the very first one I bought in 2009, and with which I struggled for five years before giving up and calling Ruger. I was only able to shoot it a couple times a year and never had time to troubleshoot it. It shot two groups every time, four inches apart - one high/left with three touching and another high/right with two touching or vice-versa (25 yards). Ruger had it for less than a day when they called and asked for an FFL to ship the whole new gun to. The replacement had no lock under the grips and was fitted/finished more nicely, with mirror-like chambers and throats and reasonable dimensions and alignment.

The problem with the original was that, in addition to the required over-cocking, two chambers were badly misaligned. Must have had other issues because they just flat out replaced the whole gun.

Another interesting alignment excursion was with an OM BH converted to 44 Special. As I understand it, there were three pawl lengths (up to that time) and the one in that gun would interchange with others it shouldn't have. I brought it up on one of the Ruger forums and was basically called a liar - when I had brought it up as a question/curiosity thing. As it turned out, my dad, who had given me the gun, was one of the best gun smiths I've known. He had welded the hole shut on the hammer and re-located it. You could not tell looking at it until he took it out in the bright sunlight and showed me a spot where he welded it that I'd never have believed if anyone else had told me. Contrary fart would do things like that and watch people puzzle over what the h......, how the h.....?, and let them wonder. He's still contrary - just doesn't work on guns any more.

 

[Pistolero]

Just take a couple thousandths off of the side of the cyl bolt and let the cylinder find it's own alignment
at firing. This is what S&Ws to and it works fine.

Or make a new cylinder and line bore them with your "fixture". Easiest would be to fine a
.32 cal cylinder for that, but I don't think they ever made them.

Or bore it up to .44 Spl and make the holes perfect because they are line bored in the frame,
aligned by the cyl bolt slots. Actually, that wouldn't be too hard at this point. New bbl coming
anyway, just make it a .44 - how big are the threads?! That may be an issue. Rethreading the frame
would be a PITA.

You have the tools needed, or can make them or buy them. You have the technology to make it better,....

Once you start unscrewing revolver barrels, you are on your way. Now, about that
thread choked barrel in your......whatever. No harder to do, other than cutting the
shoulder, and I showed you how to do that.

I noticed that you mentioned that it was easier than you thought to unscrew a barrel. Yep.
I try to tell people, but folks are scared of it. Only gunsmiths can unscrew barrels.

If you need to stretch the hand, PM me, not difficult at all. But if the bolt reaches the
slot, no need to stretch the hand. YOU WANT A BIT OF ROTATIONAL SLOP.

Bill