Big bore Question

[fiver]

we get 1 chance at 1 deer [buck only] unless we want to purchase an unsold [not gonna happen] out of state tag for a second one.
I and 4 others hunted everyday all day of our season last year and I was the one that got to pull the trigger [at over 300 yards] it was the only buck any of us seen all season.
that wouldn't be overly bad but I was the only one I know of that got a deer so that puts the number at like 30 people, at least half of them are pretty avid [both bow and rifle season] hunters.

did I need a magnum?
no.[didn't use one either]
but one of my 30-30's was definitely not the gun to have in hand that afternoon.

 

[Bill]

Most of them, when asked how big it was would reply with a wink, oh it was a three point, meaning two tits and a tail

Bill

 

[Bret4207]

Advetising, that's the truth. These days a guy has to have something that scares the living snot out of him to fire that he doesnt' really know where it hits or it's not enough gun. Hunting for some of these guys is sitting in an elevated stand he gets to by ATV. I wonder how many of these guys would hunt the way I grew up- get up at 3:30AM to be in the woods by 4:30 where the light isn't good enough to shoot till 7:45 and get put on a stand in ice water while wearing leaky thin rubber boots holding your single shot 7x57 while the drivers are still eating and having their first few beers of the day. Then you stand there freeezing and hoping you don't get shot by the drivers. Woe unto he who leaves his stand, you might never have this chance again! Or you get to be a driver and climb straight up a cliff or through hip deep ice water while "holding the line" trying to drive deer to some guys that are well into their 2nd 6 pack. And people wonder why I'm not a big deer hunter...

 

[JWFilips]

A combined hunting fishing license for pocket change and it doesn't expire until you do.

Yes you are correct but I never thought about that latter part

 

[harrympope]

I can't agree more. I'm 53 years old and when I was a kid the 7mm.mag was the big bad boy in town. I hated it I shot the 270 and it seemed to do just fine. ( Nowadays the seven mag seems reasonable to me) it seems if you don't have a $2,000 gun with a $2,000 scope shooting some super ultra fancy bonded bullet thin Skin game just does not die,in fact the bullets bounce off. The old Remington core lockt we used to use have become obsolete in fact they should probably be banned.

 

[Pistolero]

My 7x57 has accounted for the few deer I have killed, never more than one shot required. And one elk,
and a bunch of African game. They were uninformed that it wasn't powerful enough, so they all fell over
dead with one shot. I have never shot at any big game animal twice with a rifle.

Rem Core-Lokt accounted for three whitetails of that mix. Handloads for the others.

Bill

 

[KeithB]

Bill, I've formed the impression from what you and many other respected authors have written that the 7x57 is a cartridge that punches above its weight class and would be a better choice for many hunters than a magnum anything.

 

[462]

Don't tell all those elephants W. M. D. Bell killed that he used a 7X57 Mauser.

 

[Pistolero]

Definitely the case, Keith. The Rem Core-Lokt 140 gr works exactly as advertised, the recovered bullets
looked just like the ad photos. A 140 gr bullet that expands nicely at just under 2700 fps works just fine
for whitetail deer. I used the 160 Nosler Partition loaded to just over 2700 fps for the African game and
the cow elk. I have no complaints at all, and the owner of the hunting lodge where I hunted in Africa used
some 140 Barnes ammo I made up for him in his personal 7x57 Mauser custom rifle to take several animals,
including backing up an incompetent client on a kudu at 200 meters. One shot from Peter and the kudu dropped
in a few steps.

It kills just fine. And as Al pointed out, Bell, used the 175 gr FMJ RN ammo to brain shoot hundreds of African
elephants with complete success. The owner of the taxidermy place also used the 7x57 and used the Nosler 160
Partition in his handloads for almost all African game, including lion.....I was amazed. He did say he shot the lion twice.
I saw the trophy, a magnificent big male. He also killed rhino with that rifle, using a South African made monolithic
bullet called, fittingly, the Rhino bullet. He shot the rhino twice, too. He used a larger rifle on the elephant in
his office. but the leopard on his credenza, a magnificent full body mount, also fell to the 7x57. I was pleased that
a real expert like this had selected the identical bullet that I had used. And I have even more confidence in it
now, wouldn't be worried to use it on moose. Probably would go to .45-70 for grizz if I were to ever be
doing that, pretty unlikely.

It just works, and most who shoot with it can hit what they are aiming at, a huge advantage.

Here is Peter at High Veldt Taxidermy in his office with a few of his trophies, almost all taken with
7x57 and 160 Nosler Partition. His rifle was a beautiful Oberndorf Mauser 98 commercial model.
Notice the leopard's tail, draped over the edge, very lifelike. You can only see the tip in this photo.



Bill

 

[KeithB]

...hit what they are aiming at... That's it in a nutshell.

 

[Pistolero]

A lot to be said for that, Keith. We had a guy show up with a brand new .338 Win Mag at the African lodge.
He was very proud of it, bragging a lot on it. We left after he had hunted two or three days. Each
day, gut shooting some poor beast like an impala (think small whitetail doe) and the trackers spending the
whole day trying to find his trophy. Same story each day....sad to hear. I spoke to the lodge owner, he said
he'd far rather have somebody show up with an old .30-06 or 7x57 like mine than a guy with a new magnum.
He'd seen it many times.

I made 175 gr RN ammo for a woman in Montana, and she killed 7 animals with 7 shots with her Ruger 7x57,
just like mine, 175 gr Nornady RN at 2450 fps. She says that they started calling her "sniper granny" at the
dinner table. She could shoot, had a house full of trophies before they went to Africa.

The .30-30 is the American equivalent, in the sense of being fine for pretty much all our game if you
put the bullet in the right place, and not being very respected any more.

Bill

 

[KeithB]

I can see the equivalency in function; not to split hairs but the 7x57 has typically been offered in rifle designs with a higher level of potential accuracy than the .30-30. Once the -06 in a bolt action (and later the .308 in an autoloader) was the military norm the .30-30 lost it's place at the top of the .30 heap. Nothing wrong with the .30-30 or any of the lower level .30-.32s out there but they are all a step under the .308, -06, and 7/8x57s.

 

[Pistolero]

Sure, was not directly comparing the power as much as the relative "standard hunting caliber" status
of the .30-30 in America and the 7x57 in Africa. I visited a friend at another location in RSA and while
we were hiking around his large low veldt property, we ran into a gentlemen hunting. He was Fred
Burger of Burger Sword Canes and Knives (ads still in US gun mags) hunting with his.......7x57, of course
a friend of and with permission of the landowner I was with. The cartridge is extremely common over
there for hunting.

Home Page | Burger Sword Canes - Walking Sticks

For the Finest Hand Crafted Sword Canes, Custom Canes, Walking Sticks and Hiking Staffs.

www.swordcane.com

Totally in agreement with all you said, Keith.

Bill

 

[CZ93X62]

I load some ammo for a friend's 7mm Rem Mag (Ruger 77RS) that do a pretty good 7 x 57 Mauser imitation--140 grain Sierra Game King (IIRC) @ about 2700 FPS escorted by IMR 4320. Sub-1"/5-shot groups, and he has taken 4 deer over the past few seasons in Oklahoma. The load doesn't beat him up like the OEM ammo does.

 

[Bret4207]

6.5x54, 6.5x55/57, 7x57, 280, 300 Savage, 30-40 Krag, 308, 30-06, 8x57, etc. They all do the job just fine. The lighter numbers, especially the 6/5's and 7mm tend to do exceptionally good work in the hands of the vast majority of people. Why? They don't kill on both ends. I don't care what people say, getting belted by a hard kicking rifle is no fun and causes flinching and poor shots. And people don't want a 10 or 11 lbs rifle that soaks up the recoil. They want something light. Why would we expect a dude with a 300 or 338 Mag to be a dead shot with a gun he's scared to death of? Testosterone and arrogance will keep him from admitting it and getting something he can shoot. He won't practice 'cuz it hurts too much. What should we expect?

 

[L Ross]

Good thread. As a fan of the 7x57, I started reflecting on my hunting experiences over 53 years. From 1966 until the early 80's I hunted shotgun only areas. As my job and income situation changed I was able to hunt rifle zones and eventually out of State hunts. When it came down to having a purpose built hunting rifle I chose a Mauser actioned, Douglas barreled, 7x57, in Rim Rock stock. Just about any bullet will suffice for deer from 130s to 175s, but when I absolutely want to shoot anything larger, I turn to my stash of Nosler Partition 175 semi-spitzers. Discontinued, not as sleek and sexy as their replacement, I believe their jackets are lathe turned, but dead nuts reliable and penetrate like an auger.

 

[flint4570]

Were I live a lot of guy have big magnum syndrome and the deer are not always that big in fact some are kinda small and dont need a lot of gun cast bullets done right are just fine I just legal can't use em no more. Thanks to the brilliant state gov. a old hunting buddy of mine swears by his .300 win. mag. that thing is a meat grinder what waste! oh yea i like my .old .30-40 with 175 gr. cast .

 

[todd]

i never got into the magnumitis that most of guys i hunt with have. when i was young, it was the winchester m94 in 30-30(top eject) and factory loads. i can't even count the deer i killed. i was 18 or 19 y.o. when i got my first scoped rifle, rem mountain rifle in 30-06 and 4x bushnell.it was about the time that got into reloading . the 20 vartarg, 223, 22-250ai, 243, 25-06, 6.5 creedmoor, 270, 7x57, 7-08, 30-40 krag, 308, 9.3x57, 444, 45-70, 500 linebaugh........and other cartridges were my mainstay.

now its all about cast boolits(34gr hp/20 vartarg is the only jacketed bullet). the 30-40 krag is my speeder, 1930fps with a 165gr ranch dog(173gr actual). now hold onto to yer hats, my goto rifle is a tc encore with a 23" MGM barrel in 444 marlin. it will go 1624fps with a 300gr fn gc(saeco) with some 2400/dacron. boy does it "kick", not really, more of a bang to let you know its goes off and a slight push on your shoulder. i've killed 3 deer(1 buck, 2 does) with it. the buck was at 53 yards and i hit him low in both lungs(behind the "elbow" ) and he went about 20-25 yards and then he falls over. the doe were hit in both lungs(behind the "elbow") about 25+/- yards and they dropped were they stood. i have used my 444 in 250gr swc, 255gr keith, 275gr ranch dog, 280gr wfn and lfn gc on deer, its velocity was about 2000fps but my shoulder started to hurt and i downloaded them to around 1700-1800fps. anymore i find that more velocity doesn't do the trick. just a heavy boolit, going moderate velocity will get the job done.

 

[CZ93X62]

My nomenclature here gives some clue to my ideas about "powerful" calibers. Gotta say--with full-potential loadings, that CZ-550 in 9.3 x 62 pushes ya back some. 20 rounds of that per range visit is about all I ever want. Tone that down a taste.....270 grain cast bullet sneaking along at 1600-1700 FPS......and life gets a lot easier and more comfortable. 100 of those in an afternoon I can do, no sweat whatsoever. Kind of a bolt-action 38/55.

I am not above using 9mm Makarov j-word HPs in that bang-stick, as well. The Hornadys at .365" fit best, and when launched at 2700-3000 FPS at a jackrabbit.....well, those gnarly critters aren't table fare anyway. Spectacular performance, rated PG-13.

Per Whelen--"The 30-06 is never a mistake". The 30/30 is no slouch, either.