Black Powder Rifle

rodmkr

Temecula California
After Wife went to sleep last night I broke a couple of Antique BP Rifle out of deep storage.
One is a 71/84 Mauser and the other a 577/450 Gahendra Martni Henry.
Have all of the reload data for the 71/84 but can not find the data for the 577/450 Gahendra.
Brain freeze!
Do we have any BP shooters here?
What or where do you find data for something as odd ball as a Gahendra Martini Henry?

Jim
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
When in doubt FFg to 1/32" above the seated bullet base or wad card .
Above everything else zero air space .

Burn rate is by surface area , smaller granulation makes faster powder .
Case volume is set by seating and wad cards .

Yep that's it that's all I have to offer .
 

BudHyett

Active Member
The original load was 85 grains FFg loosely packed. I'd try a lesser load unless you're looking for and enjoy recoil. The .45-70 with compressed loads equaled the .577/.450 in the field.

My experience with .45-70 says to use FFg or even Fg for accuracy. My experience is to use the SAECO 1881 mold that duplicates the form of the original round-nose Government bullet. I've got two heavier semi-pointed bullets (525 grain and 540 grain) that theoretically fly better, but I score better at 600 yards with this SAECO 1881 bullet.
 
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Missionary

Well-Known Member
I shoot cartridge BP. I agree with RB. It needs compressed and that also is a variable your rifle will teach you about.
Ya know Jim I would like to see a few of your Flintlocks.
 
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Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
Yup, always fill the case so there is some compression. Air in case makes it detonate rather than burn.. Pick Fg to fit your recoil tolerance per above comments. Use a drop tube to compress to reduce compression with bullet. I never crimp or use neck tension. Bullet slips into case and rests on powder. When I close the action I want to feel a slight crunch as bullet engraves and gets pushed back into case.
 

glassparman

"OK, OK, I'm going as fast as I don't want to go!"
My Trapdoor and my Kropatschek both get loaded to slight compression when seating.
 

L Ross

Well-Known Member
Ready for way two much verbiage for my two cents worth? Most of the rifles I played with using black powder benefitted from some compression. They ranged from as little as a 1/16" to so compressed that the powder charge became a nearly solid plug. All learned by experimenting trying for best accuracy. Better grades of BP seemed to be the most tolerant of the least compression. Those would be Swiss and Olde Einsford. Less favored varieties needed more crushing.

I always use an appropriate compression die and I like a thin, laminated hard paper wad under the bullet. The card is already in place when I run the charged case into the comp die. The exception was cowboy ammo where I cut felt wads out of old hats and soaked them in melted Crisco for extra lube trying to keep a gun running for more stages before needing to be spritzed with 1 to 10 Ballistol and water.

I think there were three of us playing with 11/84 Mausers and their voluminous cases. They gobbled up lots of expensive BP and kicked like mules. My buddy Mick came up with grinding Rice Crispies and dehydrating them as a case filler to get the charge down to a manageable 70 grains or so. I tried duplexing my 11/84 to reduce fouling. Holy Mother of God, the muzzle flash was nearer white than orange and louder than hell. The recoil was ferocious with a 10% BP reduction sitting atop some 4759.

All of my odd ball BP cartridge rifles like .43 Spanish and Egyptian Rollers are gone, the Mausers too. There a C.Sharps and Shiloh Sharps left in a couple of more mundane calibers, well one is a .40-70 SS, but still pretty straight forward.

The bottle necked stuff seemed to need less compression, but out of all of them, the only one that produced truly impressive accuracy of actual 1 MOA at 200 yards from seated cross sticks, was the more mundane .45-70 in the Shiloh Sharps, using every trick with the bullets and ammo I could conjure up. But I did get away with a blow tube and did not have to wipe between shots for up to 8 rounds. Over that and the groups started to spread like Rosie's back side. Oh God, I just re-read that and I used wipe and Rosie's back side in the same paragraph. (Shuddering on my way to the coffee pot.)
 
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Michael

Active Member. Uh/What
Hi Jim!

Hope you are doing well.

One other item, make sure that the neither the base of the bullet nor the over powder wad (if you use one) extends below the bottom of the neck.

Michael
 

rj-35-40

New Member
After Wife went to sleep last night I broke a couple of Antique BP Rifle out of deep storage.
One is a 71/84 Mauser and the other a 577/450 Gahendra Martni Henry.
Have all of the reload data for the 71/84 but can not find the data for the 577/450 Gahendra.
Brain freeze!
Do we have any BP shooters here?
What or where do you find data for something as odd ball as a Gahendra Martini Henry?

Jim
RE: Do we have any BP shooters here?

Jim,

When I could stand the recoil:
From memory;
45-70 ---- 72 Gr. Swiss 1.5F .1" compression 457125 Postel. Paul Matthews lube formula w grease cookie, 1885 Browning M78,
News print disk over Large Pistol primer, cases full length sized--1" groups @ 100 yards.

Today: Still developing
38-55 & 35-40 Maynard Two tight tolerance neck reamers used to chamber a CPA Stevens 44 1/2.

38-55 14 twist Badger -.3761 Groove - 340 grains (approx) Need to find the mold to report
35-40 Maynard 12 Twist Douglas - .358 Groove - Custom Brooks Nasa Style 1.450" 340 grains 20/1
32-40 Just Acquired Uberti Low Wall - 12 Twist - .320 Groove Schuetzen Style rifle. No mold info yet.

Swiss 1 1/2 F is my go to BP

Bob