Blue Dot in cast rifle loads

fiver

Well-Known Member
yep...
800-X and steel are my steel shot choices.

I always wondered if Alliant tried to 'clean' Blue-dot up like they did Red-dot and the small addition of some nitro pushed it over the edge in the magnum handgun type cases.

or if it just naturally suffered from the H-110 problem even with a case full of powder because of some burn deterrent problems.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
I wonder if it's an air space thing . In shotshells there's essentially zero airspace .....296 was designed for 30 carb as I understand it it blows up or doesn't burn at all without mag primers and a full case .
 

Maven

Well-Known Member
I have Sea Giant's (or is it Sea Fire?) data and instructions for Blue Dot loads in a variety of rifle cartridges, but alas, not on the computer I'm writing this on and not here in FL. We won't be back in NY until late April, i.e., if we survive Covid-19. If so, I'll scan and post a PDF soon thereafter. Btw, I've tried it in several cartridges, e.g., the .243Win. and 7.62 x 39mm (with CB's of course) and liked it a great deal.
 
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JonB

Halcyon member
...SNIP

I remember an article by Bob Milek in one of the gunrags c. 1975 about the then-new Blue Dot in 357 Magnum. He liked the powder in the 357, but remarked that in temperatures below -35* its behaved with spikey pressures in an unpredictable/random manner. Not a huge question for much of Kalifornistan, but it still rattles around in my head a bit. In later years, Alliant pulled all of their data in the 41 Magnum using Blue Dot powder, and added cautions about using it in 357 Magnum/light bullet loads. SOMETHING causes these anomalies.
That's why I quit using it, and decided to sell my sizable stash. I liked it a lot originally for 44 mag, and then for 41 Mag. But, when I had what I believe was spikey pressures (but they were Random) while shooting 41 Mag at the Range in cold weather...like 20º or 30º weather.
 

JonB

Halcyon member
I have Sea Giant's (or is it Sea Fire?) data and instructions for Blue Dot loads in a variety of rifle cartridges, but alas, not on the computer I'm writing this on and not here in FL. We won't be back in NY until late April, i.e., if we survive Covid-19. If so, I'll scan and post a PDF soon thereafter. Btw, I've tried it in several cartridges, e.g., the .243Win. and 7.62 x 39mm (with CB's of course) and liked it a great deal.
I look forward to seeing those posts.
 

jerry w

Member
I have Sea Giant's (or is it Sea Fire?) data and instructions for Blue Dot loads in a variety of rifle cartridges, but alas, not on the computer I'm writing this on and not here in FL. We won't be back in NY until late April, i.e., if we survive Covid-19. If so, I'll scan and post a PDF soon thereafter. Btw, I've tried it in several cartridges, e.g., the .243Win. and 7.62 x 39mm (with CB's of course) and liked it a great deal.
I would be interested in hearing about your Bluedot 7.62x39 loads, definitely one of may favorite cast bullet cartridges
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
I burned a few pounds back in the day Lodi g heavy goose loads! Always like the powder.

forward lil bit to the mid 1980’s and the 10mm. Blue Dot was another winner For me. Looking for a replacement powder for H110 I tried Blue Dot as I wasn’t buck hunting and I had the powder. wOW great lods found in 357 and 41 magnum!!

I have been loading Blue Dot in hand gun calibers for three decades now. My new foray in the the 327 BlueDot powder is right there with me making mid and heavy loads with 100-150g bullets.

I don’t believe I ever shot any in a rifle caliber.
CW
 

HM8485

New Member
I'm gonna make a post here, just so I can find this thread in the future.
I've tried to sell all my BD at the last two gunshows (2018 & 2019), and only sold some, I still got a 5 lb'er that I guess I'll just save for Rifle plinking. I also thought about using it in some heavy bullet 9mm ammo?
[/QUOTE]
If you have a 9mm you might want to keep it. This past summer I read an article about Blue Dot in the 9 mm in the CZ Forum (https://czforum.com/- don't go there.) You can find it on tap a talk. The article was by European competitive shooters and very detailed and Blue Dot always came out near the top in the powders discussed for competition shooting. My first 9mm was a Ruger P-85. Shortly after I bought it, I called Ruger to ask about a replacement, because I thought the barrel was bad. The snippy, customer service rep said it could not possibly be their product, and suggested it was the ammo or me, though the man never even asked what ammo I was using! I had tried Remington, Winchester factory loads with jacketed bullets standard velocity, and later including swaged commercial cast bullets with Bullseye at loads around 4.5 grains and working down to a load so mild it would put all the cases into a coffee cup on the bench 1 foot away from the ejection port. At least with Bullseye with the commercial target wadcutters, I could keep more than one shot out of 10 on a sheet of typing paper at 50 feet, shooting from a rest. CE Harris's article on cast bullets indicated that the P-85 cast bullet with 4.3 gr of Bullseye would keep tight groups of 2" at 24 yds. That was the last Ruger I ever bought as I also had a Mark 1 .22. It shot erratically even with match ammo at 21 feet. Something broke inside and it is now a paper weight. Ruger reply "too bad! don' t bother us again that model is 20 years old -- click!.". With quality control and customer service like that, I don't understand their reputation and can see why they are going under. If you know a BD load that works well in a quality gun let me know please! If I find one that will shoot well in the P=85 or my minty Walther P-38 AC 41 (stamped CCCP) small gravel chip in grip and another on the barrel (suspect never fired and only dropped once and bounced) please let me know. If I find a good load I will let you know on this forum. The Harris article can be accessed on Yah Hoo which I avoid like the plague. I think they are worse than MS, Google, for selling your info. Sorry about the typos and missing text in my original post. Have been having computer problems since the March update to Windows 10. Happens everytime the "improve" it. I am going to try the blue dot in my Minty 1950 Tula SKS paid $100 in 1992, saw one for sale on another site for $950. I'll give the Walther a try as well.
 
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jerry w

Member
5 shot group @50yards with a powder coated 314440, sized .313 with 1.0cc/ 11.5grs of Bluedot out of a Ruger American ranch rifle in 7.62x39. Powder coating appears to have cut the group size in half from the same bullet coated with alox. Loads were dipped with Lee dippers and no fancy bullet sorting. I have a 3 gang mold with the first cavity hollow pointed and will try some expansion test this week along with a 100 yard target to see how the load shoots a bit further out.
IMG_9372.jpg
 

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
Very nice results, Jerry!
That rifle, cartridge and bullet must make a fine combination. Keep us posted on your expansion test!
 
I used the blue dot loads several years ago. You took your sized brass, filled it to the rim with blue dot, weighed the powder charge and then multiplied the weight by .60. This gave the max load for blue dot in your caliber. Then back off an additional 15% and you had your starting load. Worked very well in .303 Brit and 30-06.
 

Rally

NC Minnesota
Blue Dot is my go to powder for most of my pheasant shotgun loads and .357 rifle loads. I've never observed a pressure spike in cold weather either and usually don't hunt until December, most of the month of December if things work out right.
 

Maven

Well-Known Member
I look forward to seeing those posts.

Here is Sea Fire's Blue Dot loading data work up:

Fill a case with B. Dot until it overflows, then level it off even with the case mouth then weigh the full case amount.
20% of that weight is the recommended minimum load.
30% is a good starting point to work up from.
40% is where to proceed with caution.
50% of the initial weight should be ~maximum, assuming a cartridge based on the .30-06 (i.e., its volume).
Work up slowly and in small increments above 50% of max. in magnum cases .308Win.-, and 7 x 57mm- based cases.
Large rifle primers are recommended even in magnum cases, but fillers are not as B. Dot is not position sensitive in rifle cartridges.
Do not consider B. Dot for maximizing velocity in rifle cartridges, but do consider it for accuracy at reduced velocity.
At 40% - 50% loads, your are reducing velocity, but not pressure.


Hope you find this useful. Btw, it was quite loud @ 40% loading density in the 7.62 x 39mm cartridge with a 160gr. CB, but it did not produce enough gas to eject cases (nor did 9.5gr. Unique for that matter) in my Type 56 SKS. Cases were also quite sooty. For that cartridge at least, their are better (and cleaner!) propellants available.