Can vs no can - effects on pressure/cycling?
- Thread starter BHuij
- Start date
BHuij
Active Member
Okay, since I'm leaning towards a 1:8 twist barrel, I'm thinking the Lee .309 200gr RN is good one to run for subs in place of the possibly-slightly-too-long .309 230gr 5R boattail.
Only problem is it's a gas check mold. I've never tried shooting a GC bullet without actually installing the GC, but I don't see any reason for a GC with these subs, especially powder coated. Seems like unless I want to go for another brand of mold (expensive), I have three options:
1) Go with the 230gr and hope it stabilizes in a 1:8 10.5" barrel
2) Go with the 200gr and shoot it without a gas check
3) Go with the 200gr and shoot it with gas checks
Any recommendations? I've heard of shooting GC bullets without actually putting a GC on first, but never tried it.
Edit:
Also looking into powder choice now. From what I can tell, it's down to about four or five good powders for running heavy subs, each with at least one major drawback:
1. IMR 4227. Leaning towards this one, although it's kind of expensive compared to other options. Ah well. Also has the advantage of apparently working quite well for supers, should I ever decide to play with those.
2. Accurate 1680. People seem to love it, but I also hear it's ridiculously dirty in a pistol length gas system (this would line up with Ian's experience)
3. Accurate 5744. Apparently meters like pencil leads.
4. Reloader #7. Burn rate is in the same neighborhood as the others, but I can only seem to find people talking about it in ARs with longer barrels.
5. CFE BLK. I can't get it locally.
Only problem is it's a gas check mold. I've never tried shooting a GC bullet without actually installing the GC, but I don't see any reason for a GC with these subs, especially powder coated. Seems like unless I want to go for another brand of mold (expensive), I have three options:
1) Go with the 230gr and hope it stabilizes in a 1:8 10.5" barrel
2) Go with the 200gr and shoot it without a gas check
3) Go with the 200gr and shoot it with gas checks
Any recommendations? I've heard of shooting GC bullets without actually putting a GC on first, but never tried it.
Edit:
Also looking into powder choice now. From what I can tell, it's down to about four or five good powders for running heavy subs, each with at least one major drawback:
1. IMR 4227. Leaning towards this one, although it's kind of expensive compared to other options. Ah well. Also has the advantage of apparently working quite well for supers, should I ever decide to play with those.
2. Accurate 1680. People seem to love it, but I also hear it's ridiculously dirty in a pistol length gas system (this would line up with Ian's experience)
3. Accurate 5744. Apparently meters like pencil leads.
4. Reloader #7. Burn rate is in the same neighborhood as the others, but I can only seem to find people talking about it in ARs with longer barrels.
5. CFE BLK. I can't get it locally.
Last edited:
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
I've had good results with 2400 and H110, with 240 Sierra JHP subsonic with
my can. 1680 stopped cycling before it became subsonic. IIRC, IMR4227 did
extremely well, too. I have not finally settled on a powder, but have a lot
of 4227, so may use it. Mine is a 16" bbl. Have to think, may be wrong but
I usually use midlength gas systems with carbine bbls.....but got the bbl at a gun show
as a real deal, may have carbine length gas system, not my normal choice.
Seems to me to act like a .44 Mag or .357 Mag pistol as far as powders that work
well with it.
Bill
my can. 1680 stopped cycling before it became subsonic. IIRC, IMR4227 did
extremely well, too. I have not finally settled on a powder, but have a lot
of 4227, so may use it. Mine is a 16" bbl. Have to think, may be wrong but
I usually use midlength gas systems with carbine bbls.....but got the bbl at a gun show
as a real deal, may have carbine length gas system, not my normal choice.
Seems to me to act like a .44 Mag or .357 Mag pistol as far as powders that work
well with it.
Bill
Last edited:
fiver
Well-Known Member
that's one of the bullets I'm trying to figure out how to get a clean PC coat on.
more than .310 and it won't chamber in my AAC. [which is what mine barely casts to]
if I PC and size back to that I won't have any lube grooves.
I will also have a mess from PC'ing the bullet, with either a ring on the nose or the base, or a line on the side.
or a clump from them tipping over.
more than .310 and it won't chamber in my AAC. [which is what mine barely casts to]
if I PC and size back to that I won't have any lube grooves.
I will also have a mess from PC'ing the bullet, with either a ring on the nose or the base, or a line on the side.
or a clump from them tipping over.
BHuij
Active Member
I hadn’t considered that the boat tail might complicate powder coating. People seem to be finding success with it though so I think I’ll plan on figuring it out.
Edit: Fiver, what’s the problem with squishing the microgrooves? I thought there were quite a few bullet designs with no grooves at all designed for powder coating.
Edit: Fiver, what’s the problem with squishing the microgrooves? I thought there were quite a few bullet designs with no grooves at all designed for powder coating.
Last edited:
fiver
Well-Known Member
I have rifling in my barrels.
it tends to push lead around and that lead needs somewhere to go.
it could all go to the back of the bullet [shrug] but I'd rather it just laid down in the grooves leaving the base square.
or at least as square as possible, there isn't a whole lot of flat on the bottom of the LEE, pushing any curls of lead there isn't what I'd call a good idea.
now PC will alleviate some/most of that...BUT if I can help it out some?
it tends to push lead around and that lead needs somewhere to go.
it could all go to the back of the bullet [shrug] but I'd rather it just laid down in the grooves leaving the base square.
or at least as square as possible, there isn't a whole lot of flat on the bottom of the LEE, pushing any curls of lead there isn't what I'd call a good idea.
now PC will alleviate some/most of that...BUT if I can help it out some?
Ian
Notorious member
The Lee bullet casts out at about .3075" on the bands and about .297" on the base of the nose (I have two moulds made a couple years apart, same-same), so if you don't PC it, good luck. If you think the boat tail or the trailing engraves on the boat tail shank are a problem, I got stacks of MOA or better targets saying they don't.
Bullets just like this one are what made the bughole in the previous photo:
Bullets just like this one are what made the bughole in the previous photo:
Last edited:
Ian
Notorious member
Gee whizz, Ian. That WILL WORK.
Bill
You have some of those I sent you last year, they work pretty well in 7 to 10 twists around 1K fps.
fiver
Well-Known Member
yours is .about perfect for coating then.
mine is more the correct size for tumble lube.
how the hell a company can make molds day after day and have such a large variance is beyond me.
especially a company that doesn't really cut molds with a cherry that would wear out.
mine is tapered the same.
it just starts out scuffing a 310 sizer at the base band and tapers down at the front [same as yours] with the nose 2+ thou larger than yours.
I know our alloys ain't that much different, i might run a smidge more tin but not that much more.
we both run the mold near the same temp, our alloy temp is [I'm sure] within 10-15F, our cadence is 3.5 pours a minute give or take.
I don't remember 'cleaning' the mold up [other than degreasing it] to make it any larger.
mine is more the correct size for tumble lube.
how the hell a company can make molds day after day and have such a large variance is beyond me.
especially a company that doesn't really cut molds with a cherry that would wear out.
mine is tapered the same.
it just starts out scuffing a 310 sizer at the base band and tapers down at the front [same as yours] with the nose 2+ thou larger than yours.
I know our alloys ain't that much different, i might run a smidge more tin but not that much more.
we both run the mold near the same temp, our alloy temp is [I'm sure] within 10-15F, our cadence is 3.5 pours a minute give or take.
I don't remember 'cleaning' the mold up [other than degreasing it] to make it any larger.
fiver
Well-Known Member
it might be an early one?
I grabbed it when they first come out as one of those 'I need 10 more bucks to get free shipping' things from midway? Graf's?
I don't even remember what I was buying for real from them now, but I recall hoping it was a new style mold and not an old style one.
I grabbed it when they first come out as one of those 'I need 10 more bucks to get free shipping' things from midway? Graf's?
I don't even remember what I was buying for real from them now, but I recall hoping it was a new style mold and not an old style one.