CarboxyMethyl Cellulose

pokute

pokute

Active Member
I bought 5Kg (it was cheaper to buy 5Kg than 1lb, go figure) of Carboxymethyl Cellulose (CMC) to do some experimenting with emulsified dry lubes. I intended to suspend a small amount of powdered carnauba wax and BN in a thin water solution of CMC and test it as a tumble lube for pistol bullets. Unfortunately, without a house for the next two months or so, I can't do much. I'd be happy to send a quarter pound of CMC to anybody here at no charge, if you'd like to experiment with it.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
In the meantime, make sure you don't have any on you when you get in the shower.
 
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fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
if it's like guar gum you'll be skating alright.
wind milling your arms and dancing backwards all at the same time.
 
pokute

pokute

Active Member
It's great for making termite treatment for wood too. A pound of borax, a half gallon of water, a half gallon of RV anti-freeze, and a little CMC. Sold commercially as Bora-Care for $70/gallon.
 
pokute

pokute

Active Member
Okay, fine. I ordered some carnauba for $4, and I'll do my own damn experiment. Not sure how the friend I'm staying with is going to respond, knowing how some of my other experiments turned out...
 
pokute

pokute

Active Member
The carnauba came in big flakes. I put some in a mortar, added a few drops of water, and ground it to a powder. Carnauba doesn't clump like softer waxes. Next step, after the carnauba powder dries, will be to grind some BN powder into the carnauba and see if it coats the carnauba particles.
 
pokute

pokute

Active Member
The carnauba came in big flakes. I put some in a mortar, added a few drops of water, and ground it to a powder. Carnauba doesn't clump like softer waxes. Next step, after the carnauba powder dries, will be to grind some BN powder into the carnauba and see if it coats the carnauba particles.
 
fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
I'm trying to get a grasp on what your trying to accomplish.
a lube coat? fill the grooves?
I know many of the polymers need water or another solvent to suspend them and allow them to do their job.
I have a feeling just coating a wax with the stuff is going to cause your barrel to end up polymer coated, at least the first part of it anyway.
 
pokute

pokute

Active Member
My intention is to encapsulate powdered carnauba and hexagonal BN in a very light water-soluble polymer carrier as a dry lube for copper jacketed pistol bullets. Only enough polymer (CMC) to keep the wax and BN in place. CMC is not a thermoplastic (or a thermoset for that matter), it should act like extremely thin paper. I am hoping that the small amount of wax and BN will provide a barrier between the copper jacket and steel bore. The three materials I'm using don't react with each other, or with much of anything else, and they don't produce erosive by-products like many polymers do. I expect the carnauba wax to form an emulsion with the BN at bullet/bore temperature that is very slippery and produces little smoke.

It may be a total waste of time. Or it might turn out to be something useful like JPW/ALOX, but without the stickiness and affinity for dust. My research is going painfully slowly because I'm currently between homes and all my crap is in storage :(
 
fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
ahh okay your kind of duplicating what I have been doing with the nufinish and some of my jacketed bullets.

you might be able to put a coat on like they do with candy.
they slowly roll the candy in a slightly heated mixer then drizzle the melted carnuba wax on and let things roll and roll until they get a thin sealant coating.
this would also distribute the HBN and polymer powder into a pretty even coat.
I know one bullet seller out west that does a lube coating this way.
 
pokute

pokute

Active Member
I use NuFinish on my brass to keep it bright. I'm not sure how NuFinish works, but it sure works great on old cars!

The water soluble polymer is to avoid having to melt the wax. The little wax particles just get caught in the dried polymer, and with luck, the HBN particles stay stuck to the little wax particles. The coating will not be especially smooth, more like the texture of flat paint, though not opaque because the wax particle load doesn't need to be too high. Sort of speckly.
 
KHornet

KHornet

Well-Known Member
Good Luck! Tis good there are people like you who just love to go in
quest of the one and only wonder lube. However, when Ben came up
with BR and BLL, I sort of became devoted to them, and haven't really
bothered to look back!

Paul
 
pokute

pokute

Active Member
If it were still possible to get Johnson's liquid floor wax, I'd probably be right on Ben's heels. My attempts with JPW mixed with Alox were just a little too sticky. Fine for lead bullets, where adhering dirt gets pushed into the lead, but not for jacketed, where the bits of crud don't have any place to hide. Plain JPW isn't too bad a lube all by itself. I bet the liquid was even better, all by itself.

Wow. Can of Johson Liquid going for $79 on Ebay right now.
 
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Brad

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Why not just do what they do with some of the moly coated jacketed and use a rotary tumbler with a little carnauba. It seems to give a nice thin coat if done properly.
 
pokute

pokute

Active Member
Brad said:
Why not just do what they do with some of the moly coated jacketed and use a rotary tumbler with a little carnauba. It seems to give a nice thin coat if done properly.
Click to expand...

My way I only need a plastic bag and wax paper. And no clean up. Moly is a disgusting mess!
 
pokute

pokute

Active Member
Anyway, I hope to have a chance to test my goop next weekend or the weekend after. Right now the lawyers are thick as hornets around me.
 
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