case lube

Mowgli Terry

Active Member
try my mix Terry
I'll sure keep your formula in mind. I had trouble making 256 Newton cases from 270's. It was obvious some changes needed to be made. Make no mistake, Imperial works very well in most applications.. However, in heavy duty case forming there may be better alternatives.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
I usually wipe the shoulders off if I have to move them.
there is still enough lube there to do the job and it's the only way to avoid lube dents and wrinkles.
 

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
To be honest, always wipe the neck and shoulder. Not to remove the lube, but to reduce its presence to an absolute minimum.
 

bruce381

Active Member
thread swerve here accually for Paratac is trade name was exxon or esso I think back in the day.
Tackifiers (long chain high molecular wt polymers) it takes only a percent or so to add all the tack you want to a grease oil.
At 100% is so sticky you will have it on you all day even with a solvent wash.

Think I sent Ian some years ago
 
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fiver

Well-Known Member
I got some too.
it didn't take us long to figure out you only had to show the bottle to whatever you wanted tackified up.
the stuff would try to hold the lube together even outside the barrel.
 

Mowgli Terry

Active Member
To be honest, always wipe the neck and shoulder. Not to remove the lube, but to reduce its presence to an absolute minimum.
Too much lube: When I was making the first batch of 256 Newton cases the worst was happening. I was using Imperial making the dents or wrinkles from hell on the shoulder. This is not my first rodeo forming cases.

Called C&H for help. Use less lube was the outcome. The Imperial was collecting in the shoulder area making a real mess. It worked this way on my vintage RCBS dies. This Newton project was star crossed. The rifle was problematic and forming cases turned out to badly at first. Plans are to start over again from scratch. There's no vent in the C&H dies.:oops:
 
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RBHarter

West Central AR
I know this is probably a foolish suggestion and something you've thought about .......I may not be thinking of the right cartridge either but isn't the 256 Newton what was adapted to become the 25-06' Rem ? Is there any chance of using 25-06' or forming to 25-06' then to Newton ....... I know , I'm taking all the thrill out of the hunt . Its like getting lucky with an 8×57 die for neck sizing 7.7×58 instead of buying another set of between caliber bushings ........
 

Joshua

Taco Aficionado/Salish Sea Pirate/Part-Time Dragon
I looked it up. The 256 Newton wasn’t just a necked down 30-06. It also had a reduced body taper. I suspect that turning the die in one thread, then cam over, in increments would be the best way to form these.
 

Ian

Notorious member
no is a polymer that is water sol so washes off ask me how I know ah dont have to kill you LOL.

There's two kinds, #1 and #2. The old #1 is reputed to be STP oil treatment, the #2 is clear, water-based stuff which I now suspect is formulated by G-C Lubricants......(now waiting for some goombah in a trench coat to come knocking on my door...)

Paratac is interesting stuff, I still have some you sent despite having used it for lots of things including bullet lube. 1/4 teaspoon added to a pint of Comp Cams zinc booster makes a way lube that stays where you put it. In near pure form is sold in caulking tubes as a bird repellant. Put a tablespoon in your crankcase to have the same effect as a pint of motor honey or quart of morey's or lucas without diluting your oil's additive package.
 

Mowgli Terry

Active Member
Thanks for the comments on the Newton. No end of honest confusion has come from the 256. The 256 Newton is a .264 in our way of seeing it. This is how we got the, "Jap 25." The Daddy of this round is Charles Newton. We know Newton mainly from the 250-3000.

On any given day I had rather neck down than neck up. There was enough going on here anyway. The 256 was a 1914 vintage factory cartridge. Using a 270 case the shoulder had to be set back making long neck. Once formed the case had to be trimmed. I mooched a motor powered RCBS trimmer for this job. A file trim die would have been a better choice. I did not have a spare $100.00. Moving the shoulder is where I had all the trouble. The more I think about it the more attractive fiver's lube sounds.

One motivation for this project is to show there's nothing new with the CM since we are working hard to catch up with 1914. When cartridges were standardized the Newton was left out of the mix. Factory rounds were made until WW2. From what I can tell the commonly accepted numbers today are good.

Added: The 256 is right on the heels of the 270. Loading data is scarce for the Newton. I backed off finding oneself well into 6.5-06 loads.
 
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L Ross

Well-Known Member
There's two kinds, #1 and #2. The old #1 is reputed to be STP oil treatment, the #2 is clear, water-based stuff which I now suspect is formulated by G-C Lubricants......(now waiting for some goombah in a trench coat to come knocking on my door...)

Paratac is interesting stuff, I still have some you sent despite having used it for lots of things including bullet lube. 1/4 teaspoon added to a pint of Comp Cams zinc booster makes a way lube that stays where you put it. In near pure form is sold in caulking tubes as a bird repellant. Put a tablespoon in your crankcase to have the same effect as a pint of motor honey or quart of morey's or lucas without diluting your oil's additive package.
How long would it take for that tablespoon to blend into your crankcase oil? Like dissolving anhydrous lanolin in Ed's Red?
 

L Ross

Well-Known Member
You add it to warm engine oil and pour that into a warm engine.
I have been running a quart of Lucas Oil Treatment with 10w-40 Valvoline conventional in the 1964 Imperial 413 in my "rat rod". How do you feel about that? My next dilemma is I cannot find Valvoline 10w-40 in six places I checked so I bought a jug of Quaker State 10w-40. I ran the rod today, jacked it up and put it on jack stands so I can fit a drain pan under it. Drained it and pulled the filter. I have not refilled the crankcase yet. Should I be looking harder for more Valvoline?

The rod will stay on the jack stands until Spring probably.
 

Ian

Notorious member
I don't like Lucas anything. Their snake oil is just a crappy group II bright stock with polybutene added. It's no better than bar and chain oil. What happens at a 20% treatment level is you effectively take out 20% of the additive package of the oil you put in there by diluting it with Lucas which is a lousy base with nothing significant added.

If your old 413 still has flat tappets, you need an oil that has zinc in it in significant quantities, and that means you have to supplement or run a pure racing oil or other type of antique vehicle engine oil. Nothing meeting current API specs has enough zinc in it to keep your camshaft and lifters alive.
 
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RBHarter

West Central AR
I don't care for anything Pennzoil or Quakerstate it's ok as long as it's changed religiously ........ New formulations may have changed that in the last 30 years .
Gunky build up is an understatement of 7500 mile oil changes ......

We ran Havoline and Valvoline for most of my life ....... I don't know how Castrol is in the long haul but it's been ok for the last 15 yr .
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
definitely zinc or at least a zddp additive.
Z-max works okay, but most of the motor oils that don't meet the API standards do so because they contain zinc.
zinc will coat your catalytic converters internals making it less or totally not efficient.
the imperial ain't got that problem, so the zinc is a very good idea for it.
 

L Ross

Well-Known Member
definitely zinc or at least a zddp additive.
Z-max works okay, but most of the motor oils that don't meet the API standards do so because they contain zinc.
zinc will coat your catalytic converters internals making it less or totally not efficient.
the imperial ain't got that problem, so the zinc is a very good idea for it.
Neither the rat rod or the 57 Olds have catalytic converters so I need to find some oil with zinc in it or ZDDP additive. I'm glad I asked Ian before I completed the oil change.

The little monster doesn't get driven hard. The car is so light it chirps the tires when the Torque Flite hits second gear under firm acceleration. Rides like a lumber wagon with ladder bar rear suspension but handles like a go-kart. Mustang II front end with 650 lb. coil springs to handle the weight of the 413 up front.

Okay sometimes it gets pushed a little. We regularly drive a curvy hilly small State Highway here in the Driftless zone. I know it well. We were placidly trundling down it one Fall afternoon maintaining the speed limit, and there are almost zero passing zones in the ten miles between stop signs the last stretch before it ends at the Mississippi River and a larger State Highway. We were enjoying that last 10 mile stretch dropping down hill in the river valley on relatively smooth new blacktop when a pair of BMW motorcycles zoomed up on our ass. These guys were sure trying for "the look". ATGATT, mirrored face shields, squared off aluminum panniers. They hovered about a half a normal car length off my tail pipes and the guy on the center line kept stretching his neck to see if they could pass. Half the population of NE Iowa drives up this road going the other way to buy apples, look at leaves, and generally get in the local's way. Oncoming traffic was an issue and the "insect" looking space aliens couldn't pass and were getting annoying with their herky jerky movements in my rear view mirrors. So I sped up, they stayed on our ass. I told Sue, "Well hang on, let's see if they know how to ride." Five miles later when we arrived at the T intersection with the bigger highway, I could not see them in the mirrors anymore. We waited maybe 30 seconds and there they came. We turned North and trundled off at the speed limit. They absolutely could not match the cornering ability of the rod. I wish the old mechanic that hand built that car could have seen that. No detectable over steer or under steer, just a flat glued to the road feel. No tire howling like a squad car just a bit squealing scrubbing on some of the less well banked curves. Sue was grinnin' like a teenage girl.

I think I need to find some zincified oil or some additive today.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Shell Rotella was always our fall back when we needed an oil for an older engine, However, the 15W-40 rating was a little heavier than 10W-40. This wasn't a problem with older engines that were well worn in and allowed to warm up a bit before being worked hard.

Those diesel engine oils had ZDDP and other additives that are missing from newer oils (as was mentioned, ZDDP will contaminate a catalytic converter)
 

richhodg66

Well-Known Member
I've been using a tin of Mink oil for several years now. I use my finger tips. Just the neck and body, none on the shoulder.

I also use some graphite powder on a Q Tip inside the necks.