Case Neck Expander

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
Not with either of Lee's short or long powder charge dies, like Ian mentioned.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
OK--I think I "get" the drift here. No experience with the Lee Universal Expander Die. Time to do some R&D (research & decision-making). I definitely prefer the Lyman-esque 2-step M-die form over the RCBS flare-only function.
 
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popper

Well-Known Member
Lee Universal Expander Die - is really a flare tool. Remove the insert and drop in a NOE. By the time you get it converted to expander/drop tube, might just as well buy or make your own real one.
 

Ian

Notorious member
I don't think that just drilling an NOE spud would work. When you get down to .30 caliber bottlenecked cartriges it's hard to make a powder-through spud with a hole large enough not to bridge powder and yet have a tip small enough to enter the mouth without hanging and crushing it if the case rocked a bit on the shellholder. I had this problem with both .30-30 and .300 BLK when I tried making powder-through dies.

The solution is a sliding sleeve in the bottom of the die body which is cut to chamber dimensions with a chamber reamer. The case enters the sleeve first, then bottoms out in it and is guided onto the spud precisely as both the sleeve and spud are captured in-line by the die body.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Not with either of Lee's short or long powder charge dies, like Ian mentioned.

Drill it, ream it to a 5⁰ included angle taper, and throw powder with a scoop. This will work if you carefully thread the case mouth over the spud as you raise the ram.
 

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
After I posted that, I looked at several NOE expander plugs and reckoned that it may not be too workable. Or not something I'd want to change over to from my methods of expanding and charging.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Here's one I made for the long Rifle charging die so the Autodisk could charge the .308 Winchester. It only works without a sleeve because the delta diameter of case head vs shoulder diameter is less than the minimum delta of the small tip of the spud vs the expanding portion's diameter, so all that was needed was a .480" ID bushing installed in the expanding die body to guide the case mouth onto the spud.20190323_003647.jpg
 

Joshua

Taco Aficionado/Salish Sea Pirate/Part-Time Dragon
Ian,
You are correct about the crushed necks. One of the drawbacks to the NOE expanders in the Lee die body is that if you are not very careful to center your case when raising the ram crushed necks can happen. I have lost a few!

I did take a file and scratched one of my expanders to see how hard it was. I think I could drill that hole with just my drill press. I agree that there ain’t enough meat to drill a hole that unique would flow through.

I have this old, rusty, beat up, Rong Fu RF30 round column Mill that I need to build a table for. And buy collets. And rebuild the Albrecht keyless chuck. And rewire the plug. But someday I will start tackling more complicated project; like this one.

The wife says that I can’t buy a lathe until I sell “that nasty old broke down truck”. So, one more thing to fix!

Josh
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
I'm a fan of the "M" die profile (it doesn't need to be made by Lyman- it just needs to follow that pattern) to expand the case mouth for a cast bullet.

Attempting to make a powder through expander, particularly without a lathe, may prove to be more work than it is worth. There comes a point where you just pony up the money and buy one that someone else made.

If using a single stage press, I can see the advantage of a powder through expander but I'm not convinced the time savings would be worth it.
I would be content to charge the casing in a separate step.

On a progressive press where the powder through die is part of the system, it's worth having a powder funnel (powder through expander) made to the dimensions I desire.
 

Bliksem

Active Member
I don't think that just drilling an NOE spud would work. When you get down to .30 caliber bottlenecked cartriges it's hard to make a powder-through spud with a hole large enough not to bridge powder and yet have a tip small enough to enter the mouth without hanging and crushing it if the case rocked a bit on the shellholder. I had this problem with both .30-30 and .300 BLK when I tried making powder-through dies.

The solution is a sliding sleeve in the bottom of the die body which is cut to chamber dimensions with a chamber reamer. The case enters the sleeve first, then bottoms out in it and is guided onto the spud precisely as both the sleeve and spud are captured in-line by the die body.

As Ian is pointing out when getting down to smaller diameters the inherent danger of powder bridging in the PTX (Powder Through Expander) with an automatic powder measure rears it's ugly head. For people that want to do this, please don't as it's way too easy to have a kaboom. I have witnessed this and fortunately only the rifle was destroyed.

I recommend using an expander die, such as the M-die, and an automatic powder measure in discrete steps.
 

jordanka16

Active Member
I've always just charged separately when I load single stage, but on my dillon the die flares the case and drops the powder all at once. If I need more expansion I use a separate die to do that first, like large bullets in .45-70 or .45 colt. I am fond of the expanders made by buffalo arms, they fit RCBS dies.
 

canuck4570

New Member
I find the NOE expander plug to short
in my 30-06 that has a long neck it does not expand all the neck just a portion of it
it would be the same for 30-30
it they where made longer they would be perfect
 

Ian

Notorious member
I wonder if anyone has asked Al to write a program for a long-neck expander? This has been a chronic problem for those choosing not to use a Lyman M-expander or an RCBS cast bullet expanding die.
 

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
He has a .311x.307 LN (=long neck), but the other sizes are the standard length.
Why not make them all "LN"? It's not like they'd be to long, or anything.
 
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Cherokee

Medina, Ohio
In my opinion, the M-Die's are fine in that they do expand the case for the larger diameter cast bullet but they still do not flare/bell the case mouth. If the short expanded portion (say .357) fits your bullet (.357 or less), good; if not (say a .358 bullet), then you still have to fiddle with the bullet to get it positioned so you can seat it, or go to a second step using the Lee Universal expander to bell the case. I usually modify the M-die (if not hardened) to taper the shoulder at the top of the die so it does bell the case.