Cast Bullet Heresy: Seating a Cast Bullet Into the

Bliksem

Active Member
According to conventional wisdom the long throats of the 458WM in the Ruger M77 tang safety make it impossible for accurate cast bullets. The accuracy of my rifle belies that. It does not matter until it does....
 

Charles Graff

Moderator Emeritus
Shooting cast bullets in a Krag rifle, will quickly dispossess a fellow from the notion that the bullet must touch the lands for good accuracy. Such a long seated bullet will produce a round much to long to go through the magazine.
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
Well going through the magazine is not a problem for me! I shoot every rifle I have single shot!
Since I only shoot target and my rifles at low node ....you get more consistent impacts when loaded single shot! Putting round in the magazine sloshes light powder loads all over the place!
By Loading single shot; I tip the powder to the bullet and Close the bolt! All powders with light loads fire very consistent that way!
 

Ian

Notorious member
Interesting you should mention tipping the powder to the bullet, JW. I did some tests with Unique in the '06 many years ago and my velocities were higher with it tipped to the bullet end rather than the primer end. Consistency was about the same either way. I got interested because the public range I was using didn't allow loaded rifles to be pointed over the berms, not even with the cartridge resting on the follower, so I'd tip the cartridge downward, lift the butt off the bags, poke the cartridge in the chamber, and settle in for the shot.
 

shuz

Active Member
I recently found that my Savage mdl 11 in .308 Winchester shoots much better with the 041 clone seated to 2.500 than 2.537 which touches the lands.
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Shuz--LTNS!

I was being a little flippant earlier. Not about handguns--that all stands as stated. But the rifles can be finicky beasts, and every one has a personality of its own. More than half of my rifles respond well to having their cast bullets give the leade a gentle "kiss"--just enough to be seen when the loaded cartridge is withdrawn, and not enough to prompt a stuck bullet in the throat. The others don't seem to care much about the matter.

I start tests with my castings not on the range--but in the garage. I have one of the Sinclair (now Hornady) tools that allow you to plumb the throat and leade with the bullet of your choice in a D&T cartridge case--jacketed, all-copper, or cast alloy. It was from this measurement that I learned in the Rem 788 that served me so well at NCBS and elsewhere that the RCBS 6mm-95-SP was PERFECT in that throat and bore--snug/not tight fit into the lands by the bullet nose, and leade engagement with the front drive band occurring at a point where overall loaded length still fit into the magazine. That doesn't always happen, and your priorities for the load's and rifle's usage window should direct your efforts from that point on. My biases run strongly toward hunting and informal target shooting, and I am not fond of single-loading a magazine firearm to attain some allegedly-perfect throat engagement regimen. But--that's me, and my world. Your own priorities may differ markedly. You do YOU.

A lot of more recent rifle barrels are throated more deeply than earlier-made rifles of the same caliber. I suspect that is an adjustment made by gunmakers out of an abundance of caution over reloaders doing unwise things with their handloads, like The Perfect Storm of too-fast/too-much powder-for conditions in concert with Barnes TSX jammed into the lands. They hate feeding lawyers almost as much as I do. So seating a cast bullet with a gentle or firm land-kiss might not be possible with commersh bolt rifles anyway.
 

abj

Active Member
I think Waco said it best, It only matters when it does. My default OAL is a light kiss on the nose or front driving band, nose preferred but not always an option. I have two 03-a3's. #1 was shot a lot by my Dad with max loads, hence a lot of throat erosion. It has to have a 200 or heavier tight into the lands and will shot MOA at 100, 60% of the time. Any bullet not touching produces patterns not groups.
#2 rifle is a two groove Remington that I don't think was ever issued. Lyman 170 round nose(311291 I think) will shoot MOA 90% of the time again with a light kiss on the driving band. If you back off on #2, say 1/1000, the group opens slightly all the way to 3/1000 off, no difference. ???
Change guns to a savage 340, in 30-30, It hates to be touching, will not shoot any cast bullet I have tried if it touches. It has to be about 3/1000 off before it calms down.???? Same savage with jacketed 125 hp will only group with that bullet crimped in the cannelure near the bottom of the groove. Again???
My default position with cast and bolt guns is a light kiss first with all the powders and charges I want to try. 90% of the time I find what I want. When I don't find happiness then I start playing with the OAL. If that dosen't work then I'm not sure because it hasn't happened yet. BUT I have a Star rolling block in 30-30 from the 70's that might be the first one that none of the above has worked. Not sure what I'm gonna do about it.
I tried once and only once to have one single load that would work in three different lever guns, I never found it.
Tony
 

shuz

Active Member
My default position is always to start with a slight kiss to the lands with cast in a bolt gun? However, with this Savage I find seating deeper gives better accuracy. As we all know, each rifle is a law unto itself!
 

Rally

NC Minnesota
I start at function length. I have several .44 cal rifles and several .30-30’s and my ammo needs to work in all of them. Some rifles shoot them better than others, but they all function correctly. A 1/4” doesn’t mean much to me shooting at a beaver , coyote, or deer.
 

quicksylver

Well-Known Member
I only seat mine to engrave the lands to find my max OAL then adjust for accuracy. each gun then tells me what IT likes ditto for nose sizes..I learned this from several different .311299 molds I have, their noses run from .301-.304 , i seat them differently depending on the gun I am using them in and which size it prefers . it wasn't all that long ago that fitting to the throat was the magic elixir. not seating depth
 

Ian

Notorious member
Fitting to the throat always has been the magic elixir, but some combinations of components and machinery prefer more wiggle room than others.
 

JWFilips

Well-Known Member
All my load work ups for cast are started on the lands...always have been and most times that is just where they stay