Cast rifle bullet advice

[burbank.jung]

I started my first cast rifle bullet load testing a Lee .311-185gr GC bullet using R7 through my T99. The lead is WW and tin. A decent group was printed at 50 yards with one load. I'm thinking of trying AA9 (close to 2400) next. I plan to file 1/2 of the tip flat to make a meplate, put a indent on the tip, or drill a shallow dent into the tip like a Gold Dot. I've made enough bullets to remove the tensel strength of the tips to test expansion too. Can you provide any advice for my future test loads?

 

[JWFilips]

What rifle?

 

[RicinYakima]

You are doing way too many things at one time. You will only know if you change one thing at a time. FWIW

 

[Ian]

Why mess with the bullet nose?

What are your goals?

If you're just dinking at the range, use whatever is accurate and cheap to shoot.

 

[burbank.jung]

I'm shooting a T99 7.7 Arisaka. I don't shoot too often so I've been playing with this rifle for a few years. One the one end, I've been working up a 7.7-174gr FMJBT Hornady. I made a nice target with the Bullseye being the size of a garbage can lid and a triangle with the same angles as the front sight for a 300 yard target for a good sight picture. On the other end, I started to cast bullets so I can make a hunting bullets. From my readings, a cast hunting bullet should have a meplate. I don't want to spend the money on a different mold. I've got various alloys of different hardness to mix and match alloys later. For a backstop, I plan to use bagged mud. My goal, fun.

 

[fiver]

yes a meplat will help, and the slower you go the more it matters.
but.
you don't have to go all crazy trying to get one.
find/make yourself a little jig of some sort to make the meplat, it doesn't have to be something all fancy or made on a lathe, a piece of wood, or a socket, or a die set you can poke the tip of the bullet out of all will work as long as everything isn't all sloppy, and you can keep the bullet weight within 1-2grains.

 

[Bret4207]

Ditto on what Fiver said- A metplat with cast for hunting is important, IMO at least. You need to make some sort of jig to insure you are getting consistent lengths. But I also agree you are changing too many things at once. Change one thing at a time or you won't know which one gave better or worse results. If you want expansion like you get with jacketed then you need soft lead in the nose at least and all the FPS you can get. A flat nose is a better, more reliable and easier to use option IMO.

 

[Dusty Bannister]

Let me clarify the bullet you are using which might be the Lee C312-185-1R. If so, it is already a fairly blunt nosed bullet to begin with. Just putting a flat on the nose does nothing to ensure it will feed reliably from the magazine. Don't you think you should seek an accurate load with the standard bullet form and then adjust the meplat based upon reliable feeding?

 

[L Ross]

Hey Burbank, does that bullet look a lot like the Lyman 311284? Sort of a semi blunt round nose? I used the 311284 cast of plain old clip on wheel weights and some tin and worked up a load in an 03 Springfield sporter with surplus 4831 until I got 1,900 fps with that 216 grain bullet. It grouped about an inch and a half at 80 yards and the recoil was all I wanted with a hard plastic butt plate. I shot an adult doe at about 40 yards and of course I had complete penetration but I also had a decent sized 1 1/2"ish exit wound and if I hadn't seen her fall after 4 or 5 bounds, a decent blood trail for tracking.
Point is, I'm not sure that a flat meplat is all that necessary if the impact velocity is adequate for some expansion.

 

[richhodg66]

Killing deer with cast in a .30 caliber isn't difficult if you follow a few simple guidelines and know how to hunt and shoot (i.e., don't shoot at ridiculous range). I've killed quite a few with .30s, .32 and .35 rifles and one 7mm with cast. The guidance given to me when I started; cast of 50/50 clip on wheel weights to pure with 2% of the weight of the wheel weights added to balance the tin and antimony content. Select a heavy for caliber (185 grain .30 qualifies) with a flat nose, cast of that alloy and push to 1800-2000 FPS. You can get good enough accuracy for deer hunting with a soft alloy like that at that speed, but probably will need to clean after ten rounds or so. Put that bullet through the lungs and you have venison.

I'd prefer a flat nose, but the blunt nose of that Lee bullet will likely be OK for deer. Again, get close and place your bullet carefully at an unaware deer and they don't go any farther than they do with a full house '06 or similar.

 

[richhodg66]

Hey Burbank, does that bullet look a lot like the Lyman 311284? Sort of a semi blunt round nose? I used the 311284 cast of plain old clip on wheel weights and some tin and worked up a load in an 03 Springfield sporter with surplus 4831 until I got 1,900 fps with that 216 grain bullet. It grouped about an inch and a half at 80 yards and the recoil was all I wanted with a hard plastic butt plate. I shot an adult doe at about 40 yards and of course I had complete penetration but I also had a decent sized 1 1/2"ish exit wound and if I hadn't seen her fall after 4 or 5 bounds, a decent blood trail for tracking.
Point is, I'm not sure that a flat meplat is all that necessary if the impact velocity is adequate for some expansion.

The 311284 is an awesome bullet. Works well in every .30-06 I have shot it in and the 7.62x54 as well. I will hunt with it when I get around to it, but was planning to cast them with soft points like the BruceB method.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I always look for a good meplat in a hunting bullet.
I also look for Ranch Dog/ LBT styles.

CW

 

[richhodg66]

The Ranchdog has worked well for me, as has the 311041. Used a similar to the Ranchdog bullet (can't remember exactly what at the moment) in the .32 Winchester Special and from a terminal performance perspective, was probably the best cast bullet deer bullet I've used.

Gonna start working with the RCBS 180 grain FP when I get back to hunting with .30 caliber cast. I think that one is gonna be best of the ones I have tried. It has also shot well in the rifles I've used it in.

 

[Ian]

Point is, I'm not sure that a flat meplat is all that necessary if the impact velocity is adequate for some expansion.

I'm not sure either regarding .30 caliber cast bullets. I don't worry about it if impact velocity is above 2000 fps because I see big exit holes with wheelweight metal. Below 1800, just pencil holes regardless of meplat unless bones are hit.

 

[burbank.jung]

Hey Burbank, does that bullet look a lot like the Lyman 311284? Sort of a semi blunt round nose? I used the 311284 cast of plain old clip on wheel weights and some tin and worked up a load in an 03 Springfield sporter with surplus 4831 until I got 1,900 fps with that 216 grain bullet. It grouped about an inch and a half at 80 yards and the recoil was all I wanted with a hard plastic butt plate. I shot an adult doe at about 40 yards and of course I had complete penetration but I also had a decent sized 1 1/2"ish exit wound and if I hadn't seen her fall after 4 or 5 bounds, a decent blood trail for tracking.
Point is, I'm not sure that a flat meplat is all that necessary if the impact velocity is adequate for some expansion.

Yes, it looks like the Lyman 311284 bullet. Will that tip pencil through a deer so a meplate is better? I've tested these bullets once and printed a 1" group at 50 yards. I didn't save the target because these kids peppered my target with their .223. An idea I had was to just twist the bullets in a drill bit gauge and file the tip flat in a vise up to the line. As for a soft tip, maybe tempering the bullets by heating in a toaster oven and dropping in water. Then use a propane torch to remove the tempering on bullet tip. For those of you that have used the Lyman 311284 or the Lee 311185 for hunting, am I going too far? I want a decent cast bullet hunting load and can move on to other bullet tests.

 

[Bret4207]

You are making things way too difficult. You're stuck on Bhn and worrying about trying to make a hard bullet expand at cast velocity. Were it me, I'd slow down and simplify. Take your bullet and get it shooting decent groups with whatever alloy you have, even if it's only going 1500fps. Then walk the velocity up to whatever you can get and still hold a deers vitals. Then work out a jig to flatten the tip and see if you can still hold the group and at what range. If you get expansion, (and mud is definitely not going to give you the same expansion as flesh), great and if not you should still be good if you have some metplat.

Let me offer this- Bhn is not the answer in cast. Fit is the answer. End of sermon.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I bought a single cav 311284 HP from our own right here. Its a dandy if a bullet. It was sold cause its nose was a lil fat. I bought it for the 300 Bo. Its OK there. But its been a stand out in 30/30 and later the 7.65 Argi.
Its is now the bullet of choice for the Argentine. With PC its plenty fat @ .314, and shoot very well for me. 5744 chg moves then to 1700 fps and touching holes @ 50.

I decided upon the average COWW hardness. Tested in Sand, wet news print and water. None recovered from water. Just couldnt catch them. But papers and sand both caught and showed expansion. Both are tougher then flesh and blood. So Im confident this alloy and velocity will work for me.

 

[Bret4207]

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!