Chamber cast?

[L Ross]

Well I have shot 5 groups from 1200-1900 FPS Lyman 457-193 and 457-124 with no great results, sized .458, using IMR 4198 powder. accuracy is 2.5 inch is the best, averages around 3” at 100 not horrible, but not what I was hoping for. I was hoping to average 2 inches, that may be impossible with this rifle, but one can hope. I have some 457-122 HP that Ive got loaded to try if that doesn’t work out I was going to try a different powder, if that didn’t work I was going to go to a larger bullet size. It’s an HR Buffalo classic. Past the powder change and then sizing to .460? That’s the last ditch effort. If that doesn’t do I will have to reside to the fact it’s a 3 minute gun and will be fun to shooot many years at steel plates at 100-200 yards. 8 inch plates at 200 are still fun. It’s not accurate enough for me to hunt with which is fine I have another that is.
Just trying to squeeze the most out of it I can and leave no stone unturned so to speak.

If it is not accurate enough to hunt with I had to ask myself who hunts prairie dogs with a H7R Buffalo Classic? It sure'nell is accurate enough to hunt deer with.

I have a buddy who often laments to me that this or that old Winchester or Trapdoor Springfield, or Remington 141 just aint accurate enough to take in the field for deer. I'll ask him how far he wants to shoot a deer? I get a growl as a response and he'll say, "Well 200 yards if I need to." And I'll ask when's the last time you shot a deer at 200 and he'll say, "Well never, but I want to be able to." I'll ask something stupid like, "How many deer have you had to reach out to 100 yards for?" And he'll reply, "A couple." I will then point out that if the worst of his vintage rifles will hold a 3" group from a rest at 100 yards that means that his worst shot will hit 1 1/2" from where he is aiming. If we add another 2" to his group size for field expedient positions and make it a 5" grouper, then the bullet will alway land within 2 1/2" for the worst shot and since groups aren't composed of rings of the worst shots, most will hit closer to the point of aim than that. I point out that a worst case scenario hit 2 1/2" from the point of aim directed to the kill zone on even a small deer is going to result in a dead deer 100% of the time. Is there a price to pay if we decide not to hunt with a scope sighted bolt gun with a 3x9 scope capable of sub MOA groups, yes there is. However in the real world of hunting that I have done the vast majority of shots at big game come at under 100 yards.

One last thought Stihl, have you tried a 400 to 500 grain bullet cast of 1/20 or softer pushed by a compressed case full of decent 2fg black powder? If you really want to have some fun with that Buffalo Classic, try loading it like a classic rifle used to kill buffalo, just an idea.

 

[STIHL]

@L Ross I agree the accuracy of the rifle even at a 3" average is good enough to shoot deer sized game. Maybe its a trust issue with the gun, I'm just not confident in its abilities, plus its not what I call good enough. i strive for 1 MOA I have shot them as little as 1 ragged hole, but I stay to the 1 inch goal. this is the only rifle I haven't been able to get close to that with. Guess I need to turn loose of that because its not going to happen. I've got another 45-70 its a CVA Scout, it shoots a 250 Hornady Monoflex into an inch at 100, so that has been my go to since i purchased it last year, it hasn't seen nut 18-19 rounds down the tube and I've still got a box of the factory 250s I bought when I bought the rifle, I bought it the weekend before season opened. I don't have to stress over this thing, I just have to accept it for what it is and move on.

On another note, I haven't thought about BP, but you just touched on something I haven't thought about either, I can try a different alloy. I may very well be high on the BHN scale, a good mix of 20-1 might do very well. I have some pure on hand just need a little tin to throw in the mix. all I have used has been COWW that gets hard, last I checked were 3 months old and checked over 20BHN on the LBT tester.

 

[Ian]

I get wanting to get the most out of it that you can, and for that you'll likely need to work on the rifle itself. They are very sensitive to forearm tension and bedding.

Following what L Ross pointed out, if you have a confidence problem with the rifle for hunting, try this. A regulation clay pigeon is a little over 4" in diameter, or right at 4 MOA at 100 yards and will cover a deer's heart plus a little. Take a stack of birds and put them on your berm. Practice breaking them from field positions until you get confident you can hit them consistently. A hit is a kill, period. A near miss is also a kill if your aim point is top of the heart or a quartering lung/liver shot. From a hunting standpoint, when you start thinking in terms of hit/miss instead of "dammit, I can't get five under 2 MOA" , and build confidence that you CAN make kill shots at will, you might feel better about the whole deal.

 

[STIHL]

Actually had forgot about this. Finally shot the last of my load workouts with some 457-122 HP and some more 457-193 couple weeks ago and I finally figured out some issues that are going on. The cold shot, unless you shoot it back to back will go high every time. Best group this rifle had ever shot it shot off a hot barrel after a 5 shot group snd shots 6-10 went into a very nice group. Even letting the gun cook 15 minutes then shoot another group off a “warm” barrel will go high.

The trust issue comes in with the cold shot going so high,6-8 inches high. That’s where my issue has been with this rifle from the get go. Shoots like hell after That first shot and will shoot good for 15 shots it seems.

Anyway here are my targets for the outing, the 456-193 really shined. Recoil isn’t horrible, but still a pretty good thump. Makes that steel plate flop at 100 yards.

Going to shoot it some more with the 457-193 and I may bump the 122 up a little or back it down a hair and see, been a fun project and learning a lot.

 

[fiver]

like Ian said,, forearm.

 

[STIHL]

Is bedding the forearm on one of these rifles a thing?

 

[Ian]

Yes. My comment was not a random guess. Keep in mind we didn't even find out what kind of rifle you had until post #18.

That's pretty good for an H&R. You may have some forearm bedding issues or similar. Those are lightweight rifles with poorly-fitting stocks that kick hard and aren't the easiest to shoot well.

 

[STIHL]

Yea probably best to lead with all the information from now on. Threads end up drifting, or in this case, a simple question has turned into a conversation that has evolved to the rifle and possible issues, etc.

So with all that said, I remember your comment, but I was thinking poor fit in the forearm to the barrel and it never crossed my mind you were meaning literally removing the forearm and doing a bedding job on it. That shouldn’t be a hard job, just a thin layer of bedding compound, or JB weld, or we talking removing stock material and laying a pretty good layer of bedding that?

All I am trying to accomplish here is getting a uniform fit between forearm and barrel correct, or am I missing something?

 

[fiver]

your trying to remove any stress points.
they could be against the receiver or barrel.

 

[STIHL]

I’ll check it out and see what it looks like, ive never had the forearm off of it.

 

[STIHL]

Well I got the stock off and found a few immediate issues, the way the forearm screws down is tweaking the far arm and pulling it hard to one side of the barrel, the bottom of the forearm had a ridge running down it left from it being routed. The rear cap thing that squares the forearm up to the receiver needs some fine tuning after I get the forearm fixed. It’s going to require some JB weld for a proper bed, I did some light sanding to the inside of the forearm to clean all the rough spots up. It looks good, all that’s left how is to drill a larger hole for the mounting screw to give me the 30-40 thou o need to get the forearm properly centered. I’ve been mocking it up and deciding on where I want it to sit and realize I’m going to have to redo it after I get my extra clearance from the mounting lug to get the arm centers properly.

After that the only way I see to get it all properly done is to come back and drill me a fair mortise in the mounting lug area and pour it with JB weld and set the stud correctly to the forearm to barrel To keep everything parallel, after that sets I then will have to come back with some JB to properly set the mounting screw to keep it from tweaking the forearm when it is tightened down.

That seem to be right way of thinking? I’ve never bedded a forearm, just bolt gun, and it turned out ok, didn’t make the rifle shoot any better because barrel is gone. But I learned 1 thing set up and fit set up and fit until your satisfied. And don’t get in a hurry take your time. That’s what I’m doing here.

 

[fiver]

And don’t get in a hurry take your time.

yes,,, just enough is enough.

 

[STIHL]

Yea I may have took 20 thou out of the forearm getting it slicked up I’ve got to bump the mount hole out 1/32 drill size up and try it I only need maybe .015 to get forearm in line and centered.

 

[Ian]

Basically the only place you want the forearm touching the barrel is the stud and a little at the very back. Trouble is, if you bed the stud, you can't get the forearm off again because it has to swing away from the stud, so you have to do some creative work with modeling clay and bed just the tip of the stud plus maybe 1/8". To support the barrel while you bed, wrap masking tape around the barrel at the front until you get the clearance you want, and place strips of tape alongside the barrel at the rear for the same purpose.

 

[STIHL]

The rear portion on this rifle that swings actually is just a plastic filler for looks and to keep the action from falling off the barrel it can be removed so I can bed the stud then come off and file the clearance I need to make it swing back in. That’s the thought process at the moment. I have been going back and forth on how far out to bed. Think I’ll go 3/4-1 inch past the stud. Going to shoot for .020 clearance, may end up at .030. Guess we will see.

 

[STIHL]

Got it mocked up tonight, and I ended up at .030 to the side of clear air at the forend. Got it centers and situated. Going to attempt the pour tomorrow night. If I get home in time. We shall see what she does.