Cheap bullets and not loading the way you're "supposed to"

[RicinYakima]

I never understood why the Savage 99 was #3 and not #1 in sales. Price likely had the most to do with it.

Here in the West, but not the coast, the most common reason, I've been told, was that it didn't have a hammer. There have always been lots of Winchesters, Marlins and hammer shotguns east of the coast range. But on the coast and in the brush, the 99 was as common as the others. Of course there was always a lot more money over there than in farming and Indian country.

 

[Jeff H]

I mean no offense to anyone's choice of guns, here, so please don't take this as a "my dog's better than your dog" post.

A friend, big into class III, old, big-bore rifles, 1911, Air Force Vietnam Vet, all-around good guy to spend time with, pontificated about several taboo topics one day on a long dive to a distant gun show. He said things to me, privately, which he'd never bring up around other gun guys.

One day, we were half way in on a two-hour trip and he said "y'know the Marlin was always a better gun than the Winchester" (referring to their lever-guns), and he went on; "but the Winchester was cheaper, better-marketed common, like a Chevy, today." He drove a Chevy truck, by the way. His position was that the old Winchesters are thought to be superior because of their numbers still in existence, but it was more that they were more affordable, so everyone had one. He described a number of features related to both, made it clear that he wasn't down on Winchester, but that his hypothesis stood on objective facts and that he loved both.

I've assumed that this was applicable a hypothesis for the Savage, if not more so. I personally do not have the experience to make any such claim, let alone defend it. I've never owned a Savage 99, but anyone I know who HAS, has sworn by it. My brother has one in 300 Savage and dotes on it. I think he is intrigued at how it does everything so well, which so many other guns/cartridges are supposed to do "better."

I've always felt this idea paralleled Stanley hand-planes, which were not necessarily the "best," but were certainly prolific. They were affordable. They did the job if tuned and used correctly and everyone had at least one.

@Rick H , speaking of rebarreling a 99 for the "perfect" deer rifle, an old pal of my dad had some highly coveted version of the 99 in 243, which he acquired in like-new condition. He had my dad send it off to John Pell, in Colorado, to have a 24" 25 Souper barrel installed on it. John used Douglas barrels and machined them to a sleek and graceful straight-taper octagon, from a short round section at the chamber. These barrels shot wonderfully in the bolt-actions we had John do, one of which was a M77 in 25 Souper. That 99 shot fully as well as the bolt-action did. It was one slick rifle, to say the least.

 

[RBHarter]

A friend has a 99E in 243 . It is nice and does have a certain grace . It's also a great shooter .
The Savage/308 base made them . Win 94 "oh you mean 30-30" . The design and sales pitch makes the BLR much better as noted it's clunky . I find the 99 heavy to carry .

I have had both Winchester clones and JM Marlins that fit the descriptors of the PCC light , handy , easy to carry , etc to perfection which the 94' Win fits into as well . The 1895 isn't bad that way either but I have 18" G with Remlin wood. The forend could lose about 10% but with modern production it might be to fragile.

Cheek kiss comes from the stock being shaped such that it stays or is pushed into the cheek most often because the comb is tilted back instead of forward .

 

[Bret4207]

Jeff, correct IMO. It's like the N series Ford tractors. Everyone says, "Oh! They sold so well because of the 3 pt hitch!" BS!!! They sold so well because they were cheaper than other tractors and Ford had in house FINANCING with interest rates no one else could possibly approach. The Ford/Ferguson 3 Pt was just as much entirely proprietary when it hit the scene as any other hydraulic lift system. But the sheer numbers of cheap Ford N series tractors sold made it the most common and eventually it became the standard.

BTW- Ford didn't invent that 3pt. A guy named Harry Ferguson did. Henry Ford was just the money man.

 

[Bret4207]

A friend has a 99E in 243 . It is nice and does have a certain grace . It's also a great shooter .
The Savage/308 base made them . Win 94 "oh you mean 30-30" . The design and sales pitch makes the BLR much better as noted it's clunky . I find the 99 heavy to carry .

I have had both Winchester clones and JM Marlins that fit the descriptors of the PCC light , handy , easy to carry , etc to perfection which the 94' Win fits into as well . The 1895 isn't bad that way either but I have 18" G with Remlin wood. The forend could lose about 10% but with modern production it might be to fragile.

Cheek kiss comes from the stock being shaped such that it stays or is pushed into the cheek most often because the comb is tilted back instead of forward .

Depends on which 99 you have in your hands. An earlier carbine type is going to be just about like a 94 or 336. Get into the later pistol gripped, beaver tailed, heavier barreled jobs and it's more like 8.5 lbs or more when scoped.

 

[RicinYakima]

Only owned two 99s; a 1930's 250/3000 with a full heavy barrel, PG and some checkering that weighed 9 pounds with a Weaver K4. The one I still have is a 30/30 from the late 1920s I bought out of an Indian fishing boat for $50. Ugly but shoots very well with cast bullets, bore is perfect.

 

[Jeff H]

Now, THAT is one cool gun!

 

[oscarflytyer]

Once upon a time I had a dream of the perfect all around deer and medium game rifle. I wanted a Savage 99 with the tang safety (I'm a southpaw) in .284 Winchester. I wanted a mechanically sound rifle with a dinged up stock cheap. My intentions were to stock and checker it with some decent wood.

Rick - I have/traded for this EXACT rifle! Buddy warned me (after he saw the rifle I was trading him) that it was a long time West Texas truck gun, and looked like it. I didn't care. I wanted the 99 in 284 Win. Stock was ugly and cracked/repaired with cross dowl pins. Maybe one day will replace it. While I say it is mine, I shot one deer with it, and then son #3 shot his first with it, and its in his safe now. But IF I ever went elk hunting, THIS is the rifle I would take!

ps: mine looks slightly better than Ric's, but just barely!

 

[Bret4207]

Only owned two 99s; a 1930's 250/3000 with a full heavy barrel, PG and some checkering that weighed 9 pounds with a Weaver K4. The one I still have is a 30/30 from the late 1920s I bought out of an Indian fishing boat for $50. Ugly but shoots very well with cast bullets, bore is perfect.
View attachment 31424

If the old girl could just talk...

 

[Ian]

Dang, all this talk of old beat-up 1899s is almost making me regret completely overhauling this one, it sure didn't look all that bad compared to some, but the bore unfortunately was a sewer pipe. I did at least re-crown it, shoot a bunch of paper-patched bullets through it, and try to get it to group before twisting off the barrel and making the whole thing new again.

 

[JustJim]

Whose shoulder was the rifle butt against? I do believe the recoil of any .30-30 would squash my 3-year-old boy like a bug.

I'm pretty sure he did what I did when I did something similar with my 5 year old godson. Butt on the kid's shoulder, but adult holds the forend just loose enough that it slides a little. This slows down the recoil, so the kid feels a "push" but not the "thud".

 

[JustJim]

I'm something of a Savage 99 snob, not as bad as some, I have a few in a few configurations. Not a big fan of the post one million serial numbered ones in general, though I like the E models which kept the trigger safety as opposed to the tang. My .358, likewise is a post one million and is a good shooter. I have an H carbine in .303 which will hld its own on the handiness scale with any '94 or 336.

I'm far from a Savage snob, but of the lever guns I've owned or shot a lot, it is my favorite. I wanted a .358 til I shot one. I'd still want a .38-55 if I could find and afford one. And I still want to try a Winchester 1895, but all the ones I seem ot find lately in my price range are in .30-03.

Prices on 99s have been down lately in this area compared to 2015-2019; I saw a couple of decent EGs in 300 SAvage in the $700-range, and a later .243 for $600. I wouldn't sell either of mine for that! Not sure I'd sell either of mine, maybe trade for something I really wanted.

 

[Glaciers]

Well in 99’s I have a 250/3000 takedown deluxe Perch belly, a 303 deluxe perch belly, a 30-30 and a 75th anniversary 308. These rifles have a permanent home.
I had a 358 straight stock which I just didn’t like. I kept trying it out, even harvested a small Bull with it, but down the road it went. Never wanted a 300 Savage. Great cartridge but my brother used to shoot one, so I just can’t go there.
I’m with JustJim about the 38-55, never seen one, just went through a collection of 99’s last year about 60 rifles no 38-55’s. Pretty disappointing collection, lot of rough bubba’d stuff, couple good ones, but…

 

[Bret4207]

I have seen and shot a Savage 99 in 32-40. Now that is a rifle I'd love to have! Gotta be rarer than hens teeth too. It's the only example I've ever seen. I was maybe 14 at the time and had no appreciation for what it was.

 

[richhodg66]

I have one in .32-40, stock isn't original and condition is far from pristine. That one will be only a range toy with very light gallery loads, but it's fun. At some point I may find a tang sight for it.

 

[richhodg66]

Ian, did you make that stock with the Monte Carlo comb? Very different, but I like it.

 

[waco]

IIRC he made it from a cherry tree off of his property.

 

[Glaciers]

I have seen and shot a Savage 99 in 32-40. Now that is a rifle I'd love to have! Gotta be rarer than hens teeth too. It's the only example I've ever seen. I was maybe 14 at the time and had no appreciation for what it was.

Now that you mention it a 32-40 is another one I’ve not seen. But I forgot I did have a 22 Hi Power takedown with a 410 2nd barrel. Was not a factory set but pretty neat. I just couldn’t warm up to the Hi Power though. Lot of hype about nothing.
A 32-40 would be a good one though.

 

[Bret4207]

IF I could find a 22HP with a good barrel and IF I could come up with a decent varmint bullet for, I would work on making it work for me. But a 25/35 or 250-3000 is a lot easier.

 

[Rockydoc]

You did on the old Marlins. They got chubby in the 60's IIRC and the fit and finish went downhill compared to the stuff from the 50's and earlier.

I own one of each- one 94 win, one 336SC Marlin. If I had to choose I'd keep the Marlin, but it's simply a much nicer rifle in a much more useful caliber- 35 Rem. Now, throw a Savage 99 in the mix and we're going to sweat bullets making a choice!

I’d take the Savage and it’s rotary magazine any day.