Checking hardness

fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
here's how I simplified.
I took all the various gobblygook alloys I had pulled them out and started mixing.
I run the whole mess through twice to get an even blend and to clean it all as good as possible.
then I weighed out batches of it and added 1% tin and stacked it away.
by my MK-1 eyeball and near nuff calculations I believe it come out somewhere close to 1.2% tin and 2.3-2.5% antimony with a bit of arsenic in the mix.
now I air cool that alloy for pistol stuff, water drop it for rifles, and use the good known stuff I kept out for specialty loads.
 
Bret4207

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I maintain that 95% of the people that "cure" their cast problems by going harder are actually altering the dynamic fit paradigm to what their gun likes. But people don't seem to consider that, they just see that something 8 Bhn harder worked better, never considering that it wasn't the "hardness" of the bullet they changed so much as it's resistance to deformation as it gets kicked in the seat of the pants.

Maybe we ought to start having these discussions again. Many of us here covered all this 12-15 years ago on another board. Perhaps it's time to bring those conversations forward?
 
fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
the more stuff in it the more it will spring back.

your gonna have different results based on what is in the alloy.
antimony alloy grows a bit over time, but breaks down under pressure.

tin antimony alloy, tin alone, antimony alone they will all react differently when sized, aged or stressed.
 
I

Intheshop

Banned
I built a three bay box out of some 3/4" plywood about two weeks ago,going so far to paint it no less. After going on 50 years of the,"misc pile method" I found a round tuit and am trying the 3 box method. Sized the individual spaces to fit Rotometal ingots,which is std enough. Soft,medium,hard.

Old wheel weights stay in 5g buckets. Straight lead also stays out of the box cause it's not been processed. I don't have a hardness checker other than thumb nail and general info/history of that metal. I buy alloys of "relative" hardness and then Rotometal. Been casting so long,and don't have a thermometer either,that can tell by how the metal casts along with the sound they make when gently transferring them from water drop pan to dry pan.

Still using the same two oval white enamel pans from my G-ma.... things don't change very fast for certain aspects in my life. Give me a good "steely" mould,my enamel pans,old Lyman 10# bttm pour pot,some BW/Vaseline lube and these days,a "factory" bolt rig and,woohoo. I use a goodly amt of H4198 (was IMR up till a cpl years ago) and can tell by watching groups how much juice(pressure) that load and specific tune can take.

Size,jam,alloy and a few other nuances,make up a tuned load. Any one of those factors "may" change it's brethren. For me,it's the relatively small changes that get the load/rig to behave flying by the seat of the pants. I don't get hung up on "why"..... oh,I appreciate folks that love the science and chemistry. And deep down,I probably know but,there's just something about the black art side of casting and subsequent bugholes that makes it special.

Sorry for the rambling.... haven't blasted anything in 3 loooong days. Gonna shoot today though. 30'06 and 175g Lymans.
 
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Rally

Rally

NC Minnesota
Fiver,
I tried to sort mine like you did, but people kept bringing me lead, wife found tin at garage sales, bought garage sale pewter, some of unknown content. Now I just put COWW, pewter, and SOWW in ingot form, and blend according to calculator recipes I think will work. When I find what works for me, I cast a bunch(like 50-60 lbs) and label/ record the recipe. If I find something that works better, I can recycle what I thought was good, and still have the recipe and know where I'm at. I don't tend to fix what works, and load more than I'll likely ever shoot, but my heirs will have some records if they so desire.
I have a box of misc. lead, like diver weights, home cast sinkers, down rigger weights etc, that will need to be figured out some day, but until I get real bored, that box can just sit there. Wife has plenty on the "Honey-Do List".
 
W

Walks

Well-Known Member
I can't find anything with lead in it these days. I can't even mine either of the 2 Rifle Ranges around here. Just not allowed.
But I do have a decent way to separate my alloys. I've been lucky enough since I was in H.S. to collect factory ingot molds. Use them to store my alloys for instant dump into the Pot. Lyman ingots are #2 alloy, Ohaus are used for Linotype. Saeco for 20/1, RCBS is COWW, etc.
 
Winelover

Winelover

North Central Arkansas
Since, I have my own range with a sand berm.

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I just recycle my own alloy. My alloy stays pretty constant, as far as BHN goes. Pretty close to that of WW alloy. I do shoot some pure lead for muzzle loaders and some various harder commercial alloys, but it tends to average out. Rick has loaned me his Saeco hardness tester, so I can verify my recovered alloy.

Depending on intended use, I either air cool or heat treat bullets, as needed.
 
Rick

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Winelover said:
Rick has loaned me his Saeco hardness tester, so I can verify my recovered alloy.
Click to expand...

shocked-2-small.jpg I did?

I have a SAECO hardness tester if you would like to try it out, doubt you've ever seen it though.

Winelover . . . Buddy . . . . That's my LBT BHN tester you have.
 
W

Walks

Well-Known Member
I have had one for 20yrs?. It's been a great help indeterming the "truth" of the Lead alloy I buy.
 
462

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
Hmmm . . .
For starters: Enough neighborless acreage, somewhere West of the Continental Divide between 3000' and 4000' in elevation, that would sustain my wife and our immediate family, excellent medical facilities and doctors no further than 10-miles distant, and the means to provide us with our wants and need, and maintain us in our particular lifestyles.
 
W

Walks

Well-Known Member
Well,
Starting next week I'm going to really find out exactly how much of what alloy I really have. Have to clean off My patio in preparation for repair and painting. Should be enlightening, I've got about 300-400, 1 lb ingot scattered everywhere. Get them stacked and sorted in the old garden shed. got other stuff too. Three lb bars of pure lead, 3lb bars stamped WW for Clip on WW. Five lb bars of pure linotype, 2lb square ingots of COWW from a Great Guy on CBA. Fortunately They were all poured into ingot molds from a variety of manufacturers, according to ingot mold stamp.
Ohaus = Linotype, Lyman = #2, RCBS = COWW, Lee 1/2 lb = FoundryType, Lee 1 lb = Pure Lead, Saeco = 20/1.
Even have Blank ingot molds that I can label with Sharpie. And of course the Lodge scone pan = Range scrap.

Just lucky enough over the last 45 years to find at Yard sales, Still haven't test the range scrap for hardness.
 
Bret4207

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Walks said:
I have had one for 20yrs?. It's been a great help indeterming the "truth" of the Lead alloy I buy.
Click to expand...

It tells you the Bhn and that's it. It tells you nothing else. I imagine some yahoo had sold "super hardcast alloy" ingots at some point that was just plain old quenched WW alloy that read close to 20 on a tester!
 
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