Clarification PLEASE

[Gary]

OK, here's the thing; I asked (on another forum) for someone to cast me a specific bullet and I'd pay what they asked. A MODERATOR no less walked all over my post and said that it was against ATF regulations to have someone cast bullets for me and ship them in the mail. I have had a word or two with this particular individual BEFORE he became a MOD and I'd like to tell him to pound sand but I'd like to know if there is such a regulation. Seems pretty easy to figure out since jacketed bullets are shipped everyday without going through a FFL which was his suggestion.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Not speaking LOADED AMMO HERE.

It is DEFINITELY NOT in any way illegal I know of to ship projectiles between private citizens. Its a chunk if lead!!

Its also not illegal to sell your property that is not otherwise regulated. Bullets/ projectiles would not be regulated any way I know of.

CW

 

[popper]

Sending/shipping is not a problem. Give away OK, manufacturing components for sale could be a problem.

 

[Brad]

Technically they could be considered by the ATF to be manufacturing ammunition. Components are considered ammunition per ATF rules.

Do I need an FFL if all I am going to do is manufacture and sell cast bullets?

I received a call from a client last week asking this question. He wanted to start a business manufacturing cast bullets which he would then sell online and at flea markets. He was hoping that,

johnpierceesq.com

That said I wouldn’t jump all over anyone for this. Mention it politely in private and move on.

There are people who just have to be heard. Around these parts we have a term for those people, same term we use to describe a rectal orrifice.

 

[JustJim]

The way the nice lady from ATF explained it to me years ago, the GCA of 1968 defines "Ammunition" as "Ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm other than an antique firearm." So yes, I did need an FFL (Type 06 IIRC) to manufacture cast bullets for sale.

Today, an 06 licensee is also required to register with ITAR from what I hear, even if they have no intent to export anything.

 

[RBHarter]

There was a big hoopla a few years ago .
Licensing is required to manufacture bullets for sale . By association , being paid/paying someone, to make bullets would also get hung up . Give or take about 70 pages of legalese .
The "way around" is to provide a party with your ingots to be converted into smaller ingots or bullets without any gain for the guy that does the actual work so that nobody gets paid for making the bullets . Send him 5# of lead and $9 for shipping , get 4 lb 14 oz of bullets back and it would be a pretty big hemiroid to pursue a charge to make an example . Buy the time , alloy , and freight ......

This is not a legal opinion just a layman understanding cliff notes version .

 

[RicinYakima]

That is my understanding also, you can trade like things, but no money.

 

[Ian]

Technically it is illegal to make a bullet and give it to someone without an ammunition component manufacturing FFL (06). The ATF considers friendship a payment (this was established in the 80% firearm completion thing) so that would constitute selling. Don't even get me started about "intent". You can private-party buy/sell/trade ammunition or components made by a licensee all you wish, subject of course to state law and shipping regulations (cough cough California etc).

So yeah, if some IOI or field agent wanted to ruin your life for giving away a few cast bullets you made yourself for someone else to test, they have grounds to do so. However, there is some degree of sense remaining about these things, draw your own conclusions.

 

[CZ93X62]

My thoughts......don't leave a GLARING paper or digital trail behind your course of conduct, and all will be well. As long as all parties involved KEEP THEIR MOUTHS SHUT, things should proceed without a hitch.

Just remember--there are no guarantees when you are doing edge-work, and given GCA-68 and FOPA-86 strictures the matters under discussion in this thread are indeed edge work in the Hunter S. Thompson tradition. In the old Soviet Union, the populace perceived of the State as a huge, sleeping monster. Much of the time, you could tiptoe past it without disturbing its slumber. But let it be awakened, and there was no way to stop it.

 

[Gary]

Technically they could be considered by the ATF to be manufacturing ammunition. Components are considered ammunition per ATF rules.

Do I need an FFL if all I am going to do is manufacture and sell cast bullets?

I received a call from a client last week asking this question. He wanted to start a business manufacturing cast bullets which he would then sell online and at flea markets. He was hoping that,

johnpierceesq.com

That said I wouldn’t jump all over anyone for this. Mention it politely in private and move on.

There are people who just have to be heard. Around these parts we have a term for those people, same term we use to describe a rectal orrifice.

Actually that's exactly the descriptor I used "rectal orifice" ; except I was more explicit, didn't want him to misunderstand.

 

[Dimner]

Can one sell bullets they did not make?

 

[Brad]

I am no attorney but my understanding is would be fine. You are not manufacturing.

 

[Dimner]

Good. Then my wife made all these cast bullets I have

 

[Brad]

Except she manufactured them and illegally transferred them to you.

If she had a license to manufacture then it would be fine.

The government doesn’t play games when they want your ass in a sling.

We can’t afford to lose members or fellow gun owners.

 

[Dimner]

I get what you are saying Brad. The question was a serious one. I was wondering if it was within the law to sell jacketed bullets that we all end up with after selling a rifle and no longer need that size of bullet.

However, for some reason, my wife joke impulse couldn't be restrained after reading your answer. So my immature brain went with the low status "get your wife locked up" joke.

 

[Brad]

There are far easier ways to get your wife locked up. Saying you want her locked up is likely to make her guilty of your murder.

I know that is how most wives work.

 

[S Mac]

So what bullet are you seeking?

 

[Gary]

Except she manufactured them and illegally transferred them to you.

If she had a license to manufacture then it would be fine.

The government doesn’t play games when they want your ass in a sling.

We can’t afford to lose members or fellow gun owners.

I think if we continue to let happen, what's happening, then it's a moot point.

 

[Missionary]

Edmund Burke is correct !

 

[462]

I remember this subject being discussed at that other place. How many pages will it run here?