Close quarters self defense

[RBHarter]

I digress.

I saw a lot ......nope not one against the dealer that sold Presilla Ford the Lincoln she killed 6 and injured 23 with on Thanksgiving Day in downtown Reno . Neither Lincoln nor FoMoCo were sued for building such a heavy , deadly car capable of jumping curbs .

 

[Jeff H]

It is extremely important to remember that being sued and being successfully sued..... are two entirely different things.

Still have to pay your lawyer, even if you win though, don't you?

So, not so much one of those win/win things as a LOSE BIG TIME/lose a lot less things.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Still have to pay your lawyer, even if you win though, don't you?

So, not so much one of those win/win things as a LOSE BIG TIME/lose a lot less things.

Yes, but if you can lose less, that beats losing big.

 

[Bret4207]

Then they should go after the manufacturer, and also the dealer that supplied it to the public. The deadliest +P+ ammunition has never been sold to the public, just law enforcement, anyways.

It's all a strawman and you know it. The "deadliest +P+" pistol ammo isn't a nit on a gnats nut compared to the ammo used in a common deer rifle. It's all hyperbole and rhetoric mixed up for maximum effect.

 

[Bret4207]

And, then there's the contrary argument that one would be best-served by sticking with local law enforcement uses....

Back to @Bret4207 and the "no-win" thing.

It's a choice between being killed at the hand of a dirt-bag or... all this.

On one hand, you're dead. Your family is SOL.

On the other, you MAY stand a chance of being of SOME use tho those who count on you if you live. Probably in a seriously financially impared state at that point, but you can still at least be of some use to them.

I know a guy that didn't even shoot anyone, just removed a BG from the seat of his motorcycle by reaching out the window of a Troop car and lifting him off the seat. He's been retired a good 10 years now and is STILL in court for something that happened nearly 30 years ago. And he had The State on his side!

I modify my assertion to "no win or no peace"!

 

[Winelover]

It's all a strawman and you know it. The "deadliest +P+" pistol ammo isn't a nit on a gnats nut compared to the ammo used in a common deer rifle. It's all hyperbole and rhetoric mixed up for maximum effect.

Need large deep pockets to walk around with a deer rifle concealed.

 

[358156 hp]

Heard from those that have taken his "Training" that he is a slippery dude.

I started out reading almost everything he had written. There was always something that didn't seem quite right. As the internet grew, more information became available and I came to believe that I was following an industry shill who primarily wrote about things other people were doing, about which he had little firsthand knowledge or experience. Most of his "interviews" seemed to have been phoned in, except for his buddies like Hackathorn, and Bill Wilson. A lot of the people he interviews in person on video don't seem to like him very much, and he mostly seems to hang out with his buddies.

 

[Edward R Southgate]

" Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six " . I carry the hottest thing my carry piece will stand and shoot accurately , period. Not worried about lawyers when it comes to protecting my butt or my loved ones. I have been involved in two shootings in my lifetime and have not been charged with anything and have not been sued by anyone. Just make sure your absolutely right when you pull the trigger and pay strict attention to what comes out of your mouth before and after the shooting.

 

[CZ93X62]

I do what I can. I stay qualified & current and carry USCCA insurance coverage. I've had 3 'near-miss' confrontations (2007, 2017, and 2019) because the place I live is a carjacker's theme park. I keep my edges honed for that reason.

 

[Bret4207]

Need large deep pockets to walk around with a deer rifle concealed.

The fact remains the "deadly" handgun ammo is mild stuff. But advertising hyperbole works against the customers the makers of such ammo are trying to sell it to. That has never, ever made sense to me from the standpoint of an actual shooting. Why would you advertise something as particularly deadly, sell it as such and then not expect slimy lawyers to be on you like wolves after a shooting?

 

[Bret4207]

I started out reading almost everything he had written. There was always something that didn't seem quite right. As the internet grew, more information became available and I came to believe that I was following an industry shill who primarily wrote about things other people were doing, about which he had little firsthand knowledge or experience. Most of his "interviews" seemed to have been phoned in, except for his buddies like Hackathorn, and Bill Wilson. A lot of the people he interviews in person on video don't seem to like him very much, and he mostly seems to hang out with his buddies.

It's not that he's a bad writer, it's that what he writes about himself and what he can prove appear to be two different things. Claiming to be a street cop of long experience and not being able to back it up irks me. He's not the only one by any means either. There was another guy who gained hero status that told tales of daring do that made absolutely no sense to anyone who'd ever been an actual cop.

 

[Bret4207]

I do what I can. I stay qualified & current and carry USCCA insurance coverage. I've had 3 'near-miss' confrontations (2007, 2017, and 2019) because the place I live is a carjacker's theme park. I keep my edges honed for that reason.

Al, do you think the USCCA coverage is actually worth anything? Has anyone seen any evidence that they do what they say they do?

 

[Jeff H]

The fact remains the "deadly" handgun ammo is mild stuff. But advertising hyperbole works against the customers the makers of such ammo are trying to sell it to. That has never, ever made sense to me from the standpoint of an actual shooting. Why would you advertise something as particularly deadly, sell it as such and then not expect slimy lawyers to be on you like wolves after a shooting?

And give it an evil-sounding name...

 

[L Ross]

The fact remains the "deadly" handgun ammo is mild stuff. But advertising hyperbole works against the customers the makers of such ammo are trying to sell it to. That has never, ever made sense to me from the standpoint of an actual shooting. Why would you advertise something as particularly deadly, sell it as such and then not expect slimy lawyers to be on you like wolves after a shooting?

They should have marketed it as a safer alternative to reduce the chance of pass thru hitting an innocent. All BS as the biggest threat come from misses. But, hey marketing right?

 

[L Ross]

And give it an evil-sounding name...

Mall Ninja appeal.

Hey Bret, suppose a person does get self defense shooting insurance. Wouldn't an attorney make hay out of that?

"Mister Goobersmith, isn't it a fact that you spent several hundreds of dollars for insurance protection in the event that you shot someone?" "Isn't it also a fact Mr. G that you have fantasized about armed encounters with various opponents, wherein you emerge triumphant as the smoke clears?" "Isn't it true you have discussed your fantasies," Objection. "Okay, let me rephrase that, your, erm, thoughts about self defense scenario on open public forums?"

You cannot win when dealing with trained rhetoricians, given drama lessons in law school, steeped in the black arts of the adversarial legal system.

 

[RBHarter]

So now it's down to degrees of dead ........

I think we're almost to where the video of the guy cuffed and walked out of the house with 5-6 40 cal holes in him comes up .

 

[CZ93X62]

Al, do you think the USCCA coverage is actually worth anything? Has anyone seen any evidence that they do what they say they do?

It's not that expensive, and in my area the contracting law firm is a staunch gun rights practice that has scored big historically against Cal-DOJ and LAPD when those wonks start going wide. Mostly I want help with litigation/defense costs. Just having representation by The Dude might stave off creative departures from the straight & narrow.

 

[462]

. . . in my area the contracting law firm . . .

Chuck Michel?

 

[CZ93X62]

So now it's down to degrees of dead ........

I think we're almost to where the video of the guy cuffed and walked out of the house with 5-6 40 cal holes in him comes up .

IME 2-3 40 caliber holes meant gurney, body bag, or both. The 40 S&W halts nonsense most ricky-tick, as does the 45 ACP.

Not quite always, though. I will never forget that mid-90s Ford Bronco we had towed into the Station's back lot from a crime scene. We felt certain that the 'victim'--a male hairball that was hauled away from the scene and hospitalized with 6-8 40 caliber bullets installed in his software--would Do The Right Thing and expire. He was a regular customer--one of those doing a Life Sentence on the installment plan.

Alas and alack, that was not the case. He eventually recovered and entirely refused to cooperate. I did the scene work, which included a forensic search of the vehicle once it was removed from the freeway (SR 60) where this occurred. More than a dozen fired 40 S&W casings were at the scene. Between the surgical removals from the recipient and the slugs we found within the vehicle, we knew the caliber. We probed the trajectories that we could, and ran out of probe rods--we stopped at 24 or 25. The truck looked like a porcupine with mange, probe rods sticking out of 2/3 of the cab's circumference.

I pray fervently that the world does not destroy itself in some nuclear or bio-weapon holocaust. If it does, I feel certain that the cockroach, the coyote, and California career criminal will survive in its after math. All three are unkillable. Never say 'Never', and never say 'Always'.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I have seen people survive trauma that should have killed them, including gunshot wounds. I've also seen the opposite.
Criminals may not be unkillable but they seem to be tougher to kill than productive members of society.