Common Alloys And Their Uses

Dimner

Named Man
I have been reading more and more about alloys. It kind of fascinates me. I started with the great document by Glen at lasc about how the monolithic, dual alloy (forget the term) and tertiary alloys work together. All the terms make sense (except that one term I cannot remember. But when to use each alloy isn't as intuitive to me.

Is it like a descision tree for most people when they are picking what alloy to use? Something like asking one's self the following questions?

How hard do I want these bullets to be? (BHN isn't the only thing to think about)
Do I need to use this on game?
How fast will they be shot?
Is it easy to fill out the bullet profile in the mold?
Do I want to heat treat?

Not even sure those are the right questions.

So far I have been lucky with casting where nearly everything I cast can be done with Clip on Wheel weights. And if that didn't work, just adding a litte tin. Which I believe gives me a tertiary alloy with approximately double the amount of Sb as Sn. I can heat treat for a bit of a boost in BHN. So it's pretty versatile, maybe a jack of all trades, but a master of none kind of alloy.

So as I think about these concepts, is there a cheat sheet somewhere with a list of common alloys and the situations when it would be a good idea to use them? Or maybe a better idea is a list of common alloys and how they can be used to achieve different alloy characteristics.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Man have you opened a can of worms.

Clip on WW, plain or with a little tin, will work for 90% of any shooting you may even consider.

To make it easier on us, what kind of shooting are you doing? Handguns of any kind and rifle up to 2K FPS, and often beyond, will be well served with your alloy.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
here's how I handle it.
pistol bullets= ww's with a little tin added.
rifles bullets= ww's with a little tin added,,,,, dropped in a pail of water from the mold.

only when I'm doing sumthing other than shooting for a regular everyday velocity, or when I'm looking for ultimate accuracy do I go looking at other alloys, but I always try the above first and see where it takes me.
 

Dimner

Named Man
yeah, I figured this would be a can of worms. Kind of like asking a guy what is in his barbecue sauce, or ribs dry rub.

The problem is that I do all kinds of shooting. Sometimes I want to go fast, sometimes for hunting, sometimes slow and really accurate, and yes a couple of loads I want to make up for pistol. That's why i was wondering if there was a cheat sheet. Or, let's make one up. But a specific list of what I would be shooting for:

  1. AR15 loads around 2500fps with powder coat
  2. Accurate at 100 yards M1 Garand loads the cycle the action. Speed not a concern.
  3. Accurate 100 yards 30 cal loads. Speed not a concern
  4. 32acp semi auto pistol load
  5. 6.5mm, 7mm, 30cal, 8mm hunting loads. Moderate speed. Expands on game.
  6. Any caliber practice and plinking loads
That's the shooting that I would be doing. But if possible I would like to see if we can come up with a chart or something on the pros/cons of each alloy.
 

Ian

Notorious member
I used to be picky and still am when my guns tell me I have to be, but these days I tend to have the Dean Grinnell attitude most of the time: "If it looks vaguely plumbous, I'm going to try and make bullets out of it".

Part of the fun is learning how to make whatever random scrap we can get our hands on work for us. If you're a match shooter and demand knowns for consistency and repeatability, then buy foundry alloy and elements from reputable sources.
 

Ian

Notorious member
If you want to REALLY simplify things, just powder coat everything. An alloy if about 2.5-4% antimony and 1/2% tin will do just about anything you could possibly want with smokeless powder.
 

Dimner

Named Man
Hmm. I'm down for powder coating for all my m1 garand and 1903a4 loads. Is a more even sb to sn alloy doable for that? Not that I like to waste tin. But I have some pre made alloy in the 3%sb and 2% sn range. I guess I could always thin it down with some pure.

And random scrap, I hear that. I have about 40lbs of very old maritime softball sized weights that I have no clue what they are made of. My plan was to melt them down and add them to about 200 lbs of range scrap when our indoor range gets back to full capacity shooting
 

Rockydoc

Well-Known Member
"Maritime softball sized weights" could be either anodes or cathodes, I can't remember which, that are used to prevent electrolysis. They are zinc. Speaking of a bucket of worms, zinc in bullet alloy is not good.
 

Joshua

Taco Aficionado/Salish Sea Pirate/Part-Time Dragon
very old maritime softball sized weights

Downrigger cannon balls more than likely. There are plenty of people who run downriggers on the Great Lakes. The OP is from Michigan.

They could be anything, but all of mine have been softer than COWW. Garden variety trash lead. I just add pewter and cast pistol/low node rifle bullets. Or, add Lino and cast for high velocity rifle/high pressure pistol.
 

Charles Graff

Moderator Emeritus
I keep my alloy choices simple and there are two.

1. Air cooled WW for handgun (revolver and pistol) and gas check rifle up to about 1.8 K fps.
2. Lyman No. 2 for rifle above what ACWW can handle.

If, I was shooting a bunch of plain base low velocity rifle, I would mix some 30-1. This alloy would also be dandy for many sub-900 fps revolver loads.
 

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
My muzzle loader balls are pure lead with .5 to 1%tin. Used to buy it from a guy til I came here and learned a few things, now I make it. 6 BHN

Me pistol lead is basically whatever is generally plumbus and free, mixed 2 to 1 with pure and then topped with 1%tin. As long as I can dent it with my thumbnail it goes down the barrel.

My rifle alloy up to now has been wheel weight mixed with enough extra tin to make 9- 12 BHN to this point.

I am getting ready to do some work with what is basically antimonialy heavy version of lyman#2 at 15 BHN. But it may end up being too hard for what I am doing.

So far I have quenched nothing.
 
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Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I'm pretty much just watching this thread to see where it goes. All I can add is that I'm a fan of the "Throw everything that isn't contaminated (zinc/aluminum/etc) in a big pot and start with that."
 

Dimner

Named Man
So after reading all of the posts, I see I have an answer for 90% of my shooting. However, let me summarize what I perceive everyone is saying.

  1. Start with CWW or some basic lead alloy.
  2. Add tin if fill out is a problem
  3. Test for your desired application/goal.
Let's start with the application of accuracy.
At this point, if accuracy goals are not achieved, we need to make some changes. But what to do next may be different based on the load factors, such as:
  • Pistol Bullets
  • Low Velocity Rifle
  • High Velocity Rifle
Also, let's assume for this exercise, that the firearm is capable of shooting accurately and that the right alloy or bullet prep will get us there.

So, we have three applications:

Pistol
I've never cast for pistol, other than roundball, so I cannot speculate what the next steps would be there. Where does one look next?

Low Velocity Rifle
At low velocities what can alloy do to help maximize accuracy. Honestly, I have not had issues getting at the very minimum 2 moa accuracy on loads I have developed below 1800fps. I have been able to get sub moa a few times, probably just dumb luck. But getting 2 moa or less has always been a result of working with the bullet fit-a-ment rather than changing alloy.

But what if someone wants a very precise cast bullet that can be counted on for .75moa at 100 yards. How can the alloy help here? I do realize I'm ignoring a hundred other variables that probably have more of an accuracy impact than the alloy, but what, if any, changes from the basic cww and tin alloy would you try?

High Velocity Rifle
So this is where I think alloy has a bigger impact. What would you do with your alloy here to get max accuracy. Let's not go with full jacketed velocities for this exercise, but perhaps above 2kfps where stuff gets tricky. Real life example of a problem to solve. 1903a4 30-06. Desired 1 moa @ 100yards. Somewhere around 2300fps. 150-180gr bullet. Where do we go when our basic CWW + tin alloy isn't working?
 

Ole_270

Well-Known Member
I tend to go softer than the majority. My pistols are both 45s, one 1911 ACP, the other a Ruger 45 Colt. Both have been getting range lead with 1% added tin. The samples of the range lead I've sent BNE came back averaging 0.4Sn, 1.4Sb.
For rifle use, plinking type loads get the same mix as the pistols, Hunting loads so far have maxed out at 3% Sb and 2450 fps. I pretty much powder coat everything these days.
 

Rockydoc

Well-Known Member
Powder coating may simplify your alloy needs. You can get by with softer bullets at high velocity if they are powder coated.
low velocity pistol plinking bullets are not demanding. Any scrap will do.
If you check out the Cast Bullet Association web site they show what the winners of their competitions used. Linotype and low velocity are accuracy winners.
 

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
I use a lot of range scrap that tests out at around 11 BHN. It has done well with heat-treating, through no genius of my own. It just gets to about 18 or so without much effort. More hardness seems to be available if needed, but it isn't. My current "mad-scientist" moments center around hollowpoint handgun bullets. Semi-autos aren't a huge challenge, but revolvers are kind of fun. The forcing cone adds an additional challenge that many seem to overlook.
 

abj

Active Member
Not that I like stepping into a pile on purpose, but sometimes you just have to.
I can't answer to all the op's questions, and I think fiver had it nailed down pretty good.

My all purpose alloy is 2% tin and just shy of 4% antimony air cooled.(which is the old harder coww with tin added best I can tell).
It measures 13.5 plus to 14.5 brinell on a lee tester depending on the bullet.
I use that alloy to very good accuracy and no leading (proper sized bullets to the gun) in all handgun rounds up to around 1000 fps in 357 and up to 1200 in 44 mag. If I need more velocity then I use a gas check.

For 30 and 35 cal rifles I use the same alloy just gas checked up to 1850. I don't know if it's the alloy or the twist or both but that's my limit for accurate rounds. Plain based 30 and 35 I can get to just shy of 1200 fps. 45-70 I can get to 1400 but stay around 1250, it don't hurt as much.

The other alloy I use is 20:1. Mostly for 38 wadcutters and 32 long target stuff. These two alloys serve all my needs. If I need fast small arms such at 222/223/243/260 I use jacketed.

Tony
 

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
I think a lot of it depends on your gun, goal and methodology. If it works for you then why change up in mid stream.
Like every other variable. Knowing what you have, and consistently repeating it once you figure out what works.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
if it don't heat treat then it got's no antimony.

Dimner if your talking more accuracy, and your already finding the center of the barrel with the center of the bullet, then you have a short list of options available to help things along better.

more alloy.
more/less diameter.
nose fitment through alloy change if your gonna stay with the bullet. [I do this with the rcbs silhouette bullets in my 308's]
or a different design that handles the stresses better, and then find it's better alloy to help it.