Complete strip and clean cycle

Ian

Notorious member
Note the PAO base oil. True Group IV synthetic molecule. The "Mobil 1 Synthetic", like most "synthetic" oils and greases, are really just severely hydrotreated and de-waxed dinosaur squeezings with enough pour-point depressants and coiled chain viscosity modifiers dumped in to pass the same tests as Group IV oils.....once. Problem is, the additives break down quickly. Bigger problem is that truth in advertising need not apply due to lawsuit of Mobil vs. Castrol in the late '90s. Mobil lost, and to remain competitive in the market they played the same game now condoned by the court which is use cheapazz base oil and call it "synthetic". That's your Mobil 1 GC/LB grease. The exception is in high-perf lubes where the robust and consistent performance qualities of true PAO or POE synthetic lubricants aren't ad hype....they're life or death requirements.
 
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Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
For a range use only handgun what are the advantages to a better grease?
I currently use a cheap lithium complex grease.
 

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
A two-part question for the molecular knowledgeable:
What about RIG grease (Ian mentioned it), and Lubri-plate 130-A, that was developed as a Garand water repellant grease, for gun lubrication ?
 

Roger Allen

Active Member
May I say use......3451 as a gun grease? After your done cleaning and wiping the stuff down still has that grease on the rails.....unless you use a real strong solvent
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Probably none other than the parts you don't maintain regularly will suffer from grease-cake syndrome in time.

How long might that take? Been using the Mobil 1 Synthetic since probably the early 90's, just opened the safe, checked my oldest revolvers all lubed with the Mobil 1. No caked grease yet. I'll be patient though. :)
 

Ole_270

Well-Known Member
Been keeping Mobil 1 0w-20 on the bench for a light oil, might have to start using it on the Sig Stainless Target 1911. I generally use Super Lube synthetic grease on the rails and bushing.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
The grease I am talking about is good for decades, zero changes, personal experience.
I have cleaned out a lot of nasty stuff from inside old guns, mostly caked and dried grease.

For $23 shipped.....??? Why worry? Lifetime supply of the real thing.

Rick, if you have had the synthetic grease that long, then, back then it had to be real synthetic, I
believe. Not 'synthetic' synthetic.....:headscratch::sigh:

Bill
 
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Ian

Notorious member
Rick, if you have had the synthetic grease that long, then, back then it had to be real synthetic, I

Very likely so. The stuff from the oast 15 years or so will separate in the can in a few months. In a couple of years the dry part starts to crack like dried mud. Dried lithium soap scum after the oil has departed is what makes the grease crusties. The syn grease tends not to separate or dry out.
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Is that the waxy drilling and tapping lubes? I have a few small sticks and a
can of something from Boeing, blue and pink, for tapping, IIRC. Seems a good
lube for that. Maybe there are different kinds under the 'Boe-Lube' name, if
you are thinking of a grease for a gun.

Bill
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
I see that I am residing in the Stone Age as far as gun lubes go. My Neolithic light oils have been Hoppe's Gun Oil and Break-Free CLP, and the slide rails on the bottom-feeders get RIG +P. This last is almost gone, it was a 2 oz. plastic jar I bought in 1987 per FBI instructor's info as an anti-galling lube for stainless steel slide rails. It works, and 2 oz. has lasted for 32 years. My carry guns don't get the chance for greases to glomp up, they get fired with some frequency and cleaned after each session. In other guns, not much (if any) grease gets used--the self-loading rifles get a hint of the RIG on the parts that go fast, though. Clean with Hoppe's #9, then light lube with Break-Free after that, with the exception of the greased bits as above.

Humidity is non-existent here, but dust and grit sure as Sheol aren't--so sopping-wet-with-lube is a total non-starter. Rust isn't an issue, IOW. When I worked in Desert Hot Springs, with the constant wind/dust/blow-sand, I was cleaning my sidearm once-twice a week. S&W revolvers didn't admit much grit, but the crane pivots were their Achilles heel. The cranes got removed at each cleaning, and the signal for a clean-out was a gritty swing-out at end of shift. The sideplate came off 2X/year, and there wasn't much grit in the internals--IF you were religious about pulling the crane each time you cleaned the gun. That drop of oil you put on the crane pivot not only lubes the moving parts--it also traps grit and holds it from drifting inside the works. Just clean the pivot gallery and the pivot axle well, and life remains good.
 
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Winelover

North Central Arkansas
My CZ Scorpion action gets cleaned every 300 rounds or so. Depending when I switch bullets or powders. Use Shooter Choice, followed up with CLP. Sometimes just CLP. It's like a Timex.................. just keeps on ticking.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Rick, if you have had the synthetic grease that long, then, back then it had to be real synthetic, I
believe. Not 'synthetic' synthetic.....:headscratch::sigh: Bill


Very likely so. The stuff from the oast 15 years or so will separate in the can in a few months. In a couple of years the dry part starts to crack like dried mud. Dried lithium soap scum after the oil has departed is what makes the grease crusties. The syn grease tends not to separate or dry out.

Can't remember when I bought the one pound can of Mobil 1 Synthetic grease but it could well be longer ago than that. I looked at the revolvers the other day and all is well, no drying, no caking. This morning I went into the shop and opened the can of grease and all is well, no drying, no separating, no caking. Think I'll keep it. :) I was unaware though that they had changed it, can't imagine why they would, I mean if it ain't broke why fix it?
 

Pistolero

Well-Known Member
Sounds like you have the same sort of vintage synthetic Mobil grease as I do, Rick. I suspect that in the
early days of synthetics, probably there were fewer variants. What color is your grease? Might even be
pretty much the same stuff, packaged differently for a different market. The genuine synthetic Mobil 28
meeting Mil-81322 spec is seriously stable stuff. I am extremely happy to have discovered it, by
random luck, too.

My microscope repairman friend had always struggled to get hardened grease out of critical, tightly fitted
parts of a $1000+ microscope when rebuilding them. It was easy to do serious damage just trying to get
stuff apart. We had a giant Western Electric factory here in KC area which closed in middle 80s. They were
auctioning off everything. He had attended several auctions, found some good old microscopes which he
bought at a good price, could refurbish to like new and sell for a good profit.

About the third batch of microscopes was in a mixed wire pallet basket, had to bid on the whole thing. He bid only
wanting the 4 or 5 microscopes, had to take all that was in there. There were 4 or 5 five lb unopened cans of something
called Mobil 28, with a mil spec number. I'm not even sure it said grease. He opened a can to see what it was,
and it seemed like red grease, but this was pre-internet and Military Specifications were not easy to find. He asked
me, I checked out company library at lunch and discovered that it was a really high grade of synthetic aircraft grease.
So, he tried it on a microscope, it did well. I bought two of the cans from him for like $5. each, gave one to my father
a pilot and certified aircraft mechanic part time.
Decades later, we both are delighted that we accidentally discovered this stuff. Microscopes done in late 80s are still
smooth and free today. Guns are the same. So are aircraft parts, too. :)

Bill
 
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CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Cool thread. My only surprise so far is that one or more of us haven't admitted to trying these UberLubes as a recipe element for bullet lube. C'mon--somebody spill the beans.
 

Ian

Notorious member
PAO synthetics were and are expensive to make. Mobil and Amsoil were a couple of the few companies able to produce them in the 1990s. Castrol marketed an enhanced conventional engine oil as "Synthetic" because it was able to pass the same tests as PAOs, but was a lot cheaper. Mobil lost sales because consumers switched to the far cheaper fake syn. Remember when Mobil 1 engine oil was $20 quart? Remember when the same product (as marketed) came down to $5/quart? That price drop happened because Mobil sued Castrol in US court and lost because the court said if the oils could both pass the required Group IV tests that API established (and no tests or requirements existed for used oil, which is where the difference becomes apparent), then they could both be advertised as synthetic. What do you think Mobil was putting in those bottles for $5/quart.

Have you seen the ads lately for 20,000-mile Mobil 1 again? Yup, they're bringing back PAO. It ain't cheap, either. So now you know the rest of the story and why Mobil would take a great product and ruin it.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Cool thread. My only surprise so far is that one or more of us haven't admitted to trying these UberLubes as a recipe element for bullet lube. C'mon--somebody spill the beans.

2500 pages of beans spilt on the "other" site. Don't get us started, if you can name it we probably tried at least making bullet grease with it even if it never got actually put on a bullet. I set out to make a wax-free, non-melting lube to prove once and for all whether we should desire extremely high overall viscosity index for bullet lube or whether thixotropic properties are necessary. I smeared a coat of Mobil SHC 220 on a scrap of sheet rock and left it in the sun so the oil would be absorbed and the thickener be concentrated enough to make a brick grease which could be used as a stand-alone lube. After doing that a few times I had some rubbery, play-doh like stuff which worked fine in lube grooves and didn't melt or freeze solid. The only problem is it leaded to Geezus UNLESS a minimum of 10% wax of any kind was added back in. Yup, thixotropic is the way to go, the more the better.
 
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CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Shoulda known--and also shoulda known that I would be Googling one or more terms for their definitions. "I'll take 'Thixotropic' for $1,000, Alex". You guys are way over my head--and that's a good thing, in my view.
 
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Pistolero

Well-Known Member
The breakthrough that was made to get the "fake" synthetic, which I am FAR less critical of, performance wise,
than Ian, was called hydrocracking. This was first done by a joint Conoco-Pennsoil pilot plant on the Texas coast. I
attended an SAE tech meeting where a Conoco engineer took a deep dive into the chemistry and the results. For
some time hydrocracked base stocks, which were petroleum that had been broken down into nearly identical short
chains from their random, original long branched chains, as pump out of the ground, was then reassembled
into nearly identical length longer chains (of carbons and hydrogens, why all this stuff is called "hydrocarbons")
which were pretty darned consistent in behavior. Only Conoco and Pennsoil sold these oils for a number of years.
I think I might actually have the Powerpoint slides around somewhere on an old computer.

Hydrocracked oils were ALMOST synthetic, and could, as Ian said, be made into lubricating oils that would
meet the same performance criteria as synthetics would meet. Ultimately, these hydrocracked "fake synthetics"
ARE way better lube oils than the best petroleum oils from the 70s and 80s, but not as perfectly made, basically
flaw-free chains that you get with the truly man-made from natural gas stuff. That is put together from CH4s....and
you get a long chain that is pretty much identical from molecule to molecule and has no "loose ends" which
will easily react with stuff, like oxygen or metals, to change the oil into guck. THAT makes it super stable with heat
and time. The hydrocracked "synthetics" don't go all the way back to CH4s, more like C8 or C10 or something in that
range, I forget exactly. And they DO have a few side branches and unterminated ends left over from their original
state which will react, or fracture under time and heat, etc. So, are hydrocracked 'synthetics' as long term stable under
heat, shear, and time as the made from methane synthetics? No, but for a lot of purposes they are pretty close, and
they are definitely a legitimate breakthru in performance, at a lower cost than the "real" synthetics.

I will use the hydrocracked oils in my cars, they are really good lubricating oils. BUT I do change them at about
50% of what the Honda computer recommends, and in my older vehicles about every 5 or 6K, where in the old
generation of oil, I went with 3K oil changes. And regardless how good your engine's base oil is, wear particles
are slowly turning it from lube into fine grinding compound over time, and that stuff is absolutely unfilterable
except with high speed centrifuges, which are impractical for vehicles, both cost and size. So, IMO, I do not
want to go 20K on ANY motor oil, even if the base oil is in great shape chemically because it is contaminated
with metallic wear particles, I want it OUT.
I am not a lube oil engineer, but I have met a few and spent some time listening and asking technical
engineering questions and I think I learned a few things from them. And my first job was with a huge chemicals
and plastics company, and I learned the rough basics of how all our various polymers are made, on an industrial
scale and designed and installed equipment to do it before I moved to aerospace.

But for greases which will need to not deteriorate over many years, the true synthetics are THE way to go.

Bill
 
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