Conditioning a Bore/First Shot - Powder Coating

Dimner

Named Man
Hi Gang,

So it's creeping up on hunting season, and I'm finalizing some hunting loads. I have noticed that my cold barrel point of impact is off from the main group. This is as expected. Worst case, I will sight in the scope to a point in-between and still be a happy successful hunter. However, if there is a way to condition a bore, I'd like to do some testing.

Have any of you experimented on reducing this offset when dealing with powder coated bullets? No lube is being used, just powder coated bullets. I have no idea if it matters, but these are all 30 cal rifles. Oh and I guess, one of my loads I developed is for a rifle with open sights, so not really much to worry about with that one, but 2 are scoped.

Anyway, I'm just looking for a starting point to work with. AFT, kroil? as bare a bore as possible? ear wax? whiskey? ;-)
 

Michael

Active Member. Uh/What
I go out and put a round or two down the barrel before heading out. Might a few days or even a week or so, but the barrel is not clean-clean, just a couple of foulers.
 

todd

Well-Known Member
if i am using jacketed bullets, i'll take a clean bore and fire a couple loads out of it and go hunting.

cast boolits, however, forgot about having a clean bore. i have 3000-3500 fired rounds of my 444 and cast boolits and never been cleaned.
 

Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
Read a story written by a guy who had trained under Carlos Hathcock. He approached Carlos and said that he was told that Carlos was the best and asked him if he'd coach him. Carlos said, "Meet me at the range at 6am tomorrow.".

6am came and Carlos had the guy get into position and fire a shot at the target downrange. I don't remember the yardage. With the shot fired, Carlos tells him to write down all the conditions, temp, humidity, wind, light, etc.. and I'll see you at 6am tomorrow.

This went on for several weeks if I remember right. One shot, thru a cold rifle and record the results and conditions. When Carlos figured the kid was ready, he sent him on his way.

When we shoot long range at Wilton, sighters always tell the story. We have had a number of conversations on what the rifle does as it warms up. Some go high right, some go left, etc.. And depending on the ambient temp, that process may go slower or faster. I have seen many a shooter, including my extremely accomplished partner, not take enough sighters on the first target and miss the first shot for score.

So, if I were a hunter and shooting at any distance, I'd follow Carlos' lead.
 

popper

Well-Known Member
I kinda did the test for 'cold' bore PC shooting (~70-80 yds?). 165gr GC/PC (HF red), 32F, 308W AR10 16", scoped. I was COLD, prone on asphalt, bipod and left hand for the stock. Bore had not been cleaned. Chronys @ 2400 fps.
32F.jpg
 

Dimner

Named Man
Popper in that pic, your group marked 2 is about what I'm seeing at 100 yards. My hunting spot has shots out to 225 yards, so I'm concerned about cold bore vs follow up shots at that max distance. In other hunting spots where I have a max 80 yard shot, I don't even bother worrying about cold bore vs warm.

For what it's worth, I can rely on my cold bore shot to be in the same spot every time, however it's the follow up shots that are the concern. Yeah yeah, I know, blah blah blah, don't miss and all those type of replies. However, I try my best to be a responsible hunter. Before hunting season, I will do my best to reduce the distance between the cold bore and the follow-up shot.

My bore when I go hunting is fouled from pre-season, I don't do anything to it during the season unless it gets wet. If that happens, I will re-clean/re-foul. However, the bore is always 100% cold when taking a shot in the field. Looking to move that warm group a little bit closer to the first cold shot.

I just don't know where to start
 

popper

Well-Known Member
Dimner - probably the worst shooting condition I've ever been in. 70 yr old, sweatshirt and jeans, had to double my fist up to get elevation right. Northern Arkansas right after a heavy sleet storm. IIRC, ESPC, Just stated shooting cast in that rifle. Few yrs back at a friends place, shot Smokes PC @ 200 shake & bake, from the carbine. Same cast and powder load. Hot that day, sitting and squeesy bag under the stock. I'll call MOA 3 shots using 2nd circle on Nikon BDC scope - align circle with round part of steel target. I know I pulled the upper right one a bit. I'm not that good a shot. Other shots were from buddy who never shot an AR10 before. I'd consider cold shots, dirty barrel, as we had to drive and reset the target. I have seen a change in POI when using PC and lubed bullets. My 2 cents, don't worry about it.
Packing up the carbine with a rifle barrel for GK to have. Replace his PSA he can't get to work. IIRC Bartlein was making the DPMS barrels then.
TgtGfx15.jpg
 
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Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
Looking to move that warm group a little bit closer to the first cold shot.

In my limited experience, I really don't think that is a possibility. We are talking about a piece of steel changing temp and when it does, it changes size and that changes how it vibrates. If the barrel is not free floated, then it also changes how it contacts the wood as well as the contact pressure.

I think the best option is to use a scope with mil dots or similar graduations on the vertical reticle. Know what dot/mark to use for first cold shot and what to use for follow up warm shots. Might not even need mil dots. Might be as little as the crosshair thickness up and left for follow up shots.
 

Ian

Notorious member
I have observed consistently and without fail that when using powder coated, gas checked bullets, the first shot from a CLEAN bore goes right in the group as long as the group is fired within a few minutes of the first shot. More than five minutes or so afterward, the next shot will be about 1 MOA out of the group and the rest back into the group. This works out perfectly for me because it allows me to clean my barrels with Ed's Red and leave them after one dry patch is pushed through a clean, damp bore and know the first shot will be dead on.
 

L Ross

Well-Known Member
Hi Gang,

So it's creeping up on hunting season, and I'm finalizing some hunting loads. I have noticed that my cold barrel point of impact is off from the main group. This is as expected. Worst case, I will sight in the scope to a point in-between and still be a happy successful hunter. However, if there is a way to condition a bore, I'd like to do some testing.

Have any of you experimented on reducing this offset when dealing with powder coated bullets? No lube is being used, just powder coated bullets. I have no idea if it matters, but these are all 30 cal rifles. Oh and I guess, one of my loads I developed is for a rifle with open sights, so not really much to worry about with that one, but 2 are scoped.

Anyway, I'm just looking for a starting point to work with. AFT, kroil? as bare a bore as possible? ear wax? whiskey? ;-)
Whiskey.
 

John

Active Member
I would sight in for the first shot. You shouldn't need to take another. for deer. Hogs might be different.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
i can still describe the taste of the oil from about 7-8 different states.
you wouldn't think thered be that much difference, and oil was oil,,,, i can assure you it is not all the same.
 

L Ross

Well-Known Member
i can still describe the taste of the oil from about 7-8 different states.
you wouldn't think thered be that much difference, and oil was oil,,,, i can assure you it is not all the same.
Must have been the varied diet the dinosaurs ate?
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
no it's the depth and pressure the oil is subjected to.
more pressure and heat and eventually you get natural gas.
less and you end up with more paraffin and tar in the mix.