Crimp on 38 Spec wad cutters...question ....Light or Heavy

[JWFilips]

Been shooting a lot of the Lyman 311492 ( cast about 10/11 bhn with PC coating) recently.
I usually seat them flush to the top shoulder of the bullet ( letting the "button nub" stand proud)
I put a light roll crimp on the case & shooting these with light loads.
If I shoot on bags at 25 yards I get small 3 to 4 bullet groups in different places on the target with 50 shot fired...... & I have been reading that some say you need a firm crimp even with light loads to maintain consistency!
Just would like to throw this out there and see what you fellows think?
Pretty sure my eye placement/ sight alignment is the same....figure if I'm getting multiple nice groups they really should be in the same impact area?

 

[waco]

I imagine consistent proper neck tension is more important than crimp.

 

[RicinYakima]

Try no crimp, as in, just push the bell in so they chamber. Works for Bullseye loads, no experience with anything else.

 

[Ben]

I imagine consistent proper neck tension is more important than crimp.

Vote # 2 for that.

Ben

 

[Ian]

The problem with PC is it is very slippery. I would try increasing the powder charge slightly, like 7%.

For some reason that I'll probably spend the rest of my life attempting to solve, powder coated bullets tend to clump into multiple groups.

If you wanted to help with the quest, next time load a batch with a wash of BLL over the PC and compare to same load without BLL.

Crimp can help ignition consistency insome instances but there is more to consistent loads than that. Unless you're trimming brass every firing, a significant crimp doesn't ADD much consistency but actually introduces another variable.

 

[waco]

Jim. What brass are you using?

 

[fiver]

Try no crimp, as in, just push the bell in so they chamber. Works for Bullseye loads, no experience with anything else.

try this first, maybe even leave a little flair that just slides in the chamber.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I find better consistency with a crimp on mine. Its been over a year now our outdoor bullseye matches have been cancelled again for this year so Im not shooting many WC's. But loaded a"few" over the lst 35+ years shooting 3 gun bullseye matches. I just roll the mouth into the crimp groove. In both 32 & 38 they shoot better and in the case of the 32 its needed as the chamber is tight. Its a Benelli 95 pistol. The Smith 52 seems more forgiving but just a lil flair and they dont feed. Now a revolver will not have these worries so try both and variations cause what WE LIKE dont much matter. The gun will Tell ya if ya listen.

CW

 

[Bret4207]

First off, is all your brass the same brand at least? Is some from "mid range" and others "+ P"? Different brass is know to shoot to different spots. Are they all about the same age and # of times loaded? Annealing may help even out things out. As far as crimp or not, you need to try the various methods. I'd be real happy if no crimp at all was best, but you're going to have to go from none to heavy with stops at every place in between to see. We would assume this is an ignition issue, but it's more complex than that. Gotta shoot em and see.

 

[Intel6]

What others have said about a consistent neck tension/crimp is correct. Take a look at factory WC loads and see how they are crimped. Many years ago I did a bunch of testing with my Bill Davis PPC revolver in my Ransom rest. I found I got the best results by using a Redding Profile Crimp. The Redding PC provides a normal roll type crimp but it also provides some taper style crimp along with the roll crimp and that (I believe) provides the neck tension for a more consistent load. This was all done using a big batch Federal brass that I have just for that revolver. Another thing I found was the chronograph showed the ammo was more consistent with a lower ES and SD.

After I discovered this I started using the Redding PC die for other revolver caliber's including .32 S&WL/MAG, .44 Mag, .45 Colt, and .45 Auto Rim.

 

[Ian]

The Smith 52 seems more forgiving but just a lil flair and they dont feed.

Cool! We don't hear much about those pistols anymore, how about a show n tell thread in the handgun section next time you're bored?

 

[CZ93X62]

I have only used Lymans #313492 and #358432 in revolvers. I have shot both between 700 and 1200 FPS, and a light roll crimp sufficed to wrap things nicely, and those crimps were set at the front edge of the foremost drive band, with the sub-caliber button nose seated proud (to paraphrase the O/P).

Now, for the Extreme Crimping portion of our program. I made use of that sub-caliber nose on #313492 in the 7.62 x 38R/1895 Nagant contraption revolver as follows--with that bullet nose seated flush with the case mouth (Starline brass @ 1.460" length) I Miguelito Raton-ed a crimp by using a 32 SWL size die (minus decapping assembly) as a crimp die an running the case mouth into that die about .150" to retain the bullet and allow the case mouth to fit in that system's barrel forcing cone. It worked well, accurately enough to hit jackrabbits at up to 35 yards. That gas-seal system is ridiculous, but Russia saw fit to use that silliness well into WWII.

 

[JWFilips]

First off I fixed the Typo!!! it is the 311492

Ok Seeing some good things to try here! Thanks for the input.
I'm using old R-P wadcutter brass. Have about 43 of these. The others are even older Peters Wad cutter brass all are 38 Special not P+

 

[Matt]

When loading wadcutters in .38 Special I’ve found a light taper crimp is best. Using one lot of brass is important too. If you are using brass from factory match loads you’ll find the case walls are thin. My Remington match brass cracks around the cannelures pretty early, these cracks cause flyers.

 

[JWFilips]

OK; Probably want to answer a few tips!
I have not actually dealt with multiple groupings with PC and Low Node rifle shooting but now that it was brought up I have seen this off and on on pistol shooting!
Will try the overcoating!

Question...How does one obtain proper neck tension with pistol loadings? My shooting buddy says a heavy crimp will fix that???

I do have a Redding Taper crimp die for my 38 special I have used it but do not seem to reap any rewards?

I had some problems with leaving some Bell in my Pistol....some will go into the cylinder and some will not ( at the same settings)

So I'm throwing these things back out there to narrow things down!
Thanks Guys

 

[Ben]

I had some problems with leaving some Bell in my Pistol....some will go into the cylinder and some will not ( at the same settings)

Sounds like your cases are of different lengths ? ?

 

[Edward R Southgate]

I use a firm roll crimp in the top groove and let what's left hang out . Get nice tight clusters . Never even held a powder coated bullet let alone loaded one. I still use the old black Ideal/Lyman BP lube on low velocity target stuff . Been working for me for over 50 years so I doubt I'll be changing in this lifetime . I've had the same Ideal #1 sizer , same die and the same lube on every bench I ever loaded on .
Eddie

 

[Edward R Southgate]

Cool! We don't hear much about those pistols anymore, how about a show n tell thread in the handgun section next time you're bored?

Seconded ! I always wanted one of those but never found one when I had the money to pay for it .

 

[CZ93X62]

For a time, S&W offered them as the Model 952, in 9mm Luger caliber. Dunno if these are still cataloged.

 

[fiver]

they had the 58 err 59 too, I got to hold one that wasn't for sale not too long ago.
I looked pretty hard for one before giving up and buying the CZ-75B