Current S&W 625 info wanted
- Thread starter Pistolero
- Start date
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
I have measured four since the change over to CNC machinery in about 1990. All were .452-minus with my Chinese plug gauges. Doesn't mean they isn't an odd duck. Best answer is to take a jacketed bullet that you have measured when you go shopping. HTH's Ric
p.s. The .456" measurement can about because the British wanted that size for 455 Webley ammo in 1914 and S&W never changed spec's since they had not made a .45 caliber pistol in 35 years at that point.
p.s. The .456" measurement can about because the British wanted that size for 455 Webley ammo in 1914 and S&W never changed spec's since they had not made a .45 caliber pistol in 35 years at that point.
fiver
Well-Known Member
I never measured mine, but I know they for sure they ain't 456.
I was messing about head spacing off the bullet trying to get around using the moon clips for a little while there.
every cylinder would take every round with a bullet sized to 452 if I loaded the case properly.
[if I didn't I ended up with all kinds of problems]
456 would have let them fall into the cylinder much too far.
I was messing about head spacing off the bullet trying to get around using the moon clips for a little while there.
every cylinder would take every round with a bullet sized to 452 if I loaded the case properly.
[if I didn't I ended up with all kinds of problems]
456 would have let them fall into the cylinder much too far.
fiver
Well-Known Member
I got 500 pieces of Top Brass back then and I'm still using it.
AR brass wasn't easily found when I bought my 625 so when I found some I snatched it up, then I ordered some full moon clips and a de-clipper tool from Dillon.
I use the gun as the house gun so the AR cases go to the range [and are a little 'more loaded' when I carry it on the wheeler] I mostly keep the moon clips for the house.
AR brass wasn't easily found when I bought my 625 so when I found some I snatched it up, then I ordered some full moon clips and a de-clipper tool from Dillon.
I use the gun as the house gun so the AR cases go to the range [and are a little 'more loaded' when I carry it on the wheeler] I mostly keep the moon clips for the house.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
fiver, my thoughts exactly. Target 45 AR loads for playing, but #452423's in Starline AR cases with secret amount of A2400 for hunting and carry, with 45 ACP in moon clips for reloads.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
Thanks for the info on S&W Model 625 throat specs listed above. Bill--don't keep your example's Tale of the Tape a secret! I am kinda lusting in my heart for one of these 45 ACP/AR revolvers myself. I have that new Ruger 44 Magnum (Bisley Hunter) bailing out of the CA DROS Purgatory tomorrow afternoon, and once I get its hash settled I will need a new play toy/goblin dissuader.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
OK, once I get it, will post dimensional info. And I have some test ammo loaded up,
and if I can get a bit of decent weather, will try it out. Since it was 6F last night, we'll see
what the weather situation will be. Should be starting to warm just a touch in a few weeks.
We had days of 55 and 60F in first week of Jan, unusual, and paying for it now.
Bill
and if I can get a bit of decent weather, will try it out. Since it was 6F last night, we'll see
what the weather situation will be. Should be starting to warm just a touch in a few weeks.
We had days of 55 and 60F in first week of Jan, unusual, and paying for it now.
Bill
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
OK, took the new JM 625 to the range today, we lucked out and it was about 38-40F this
PM, although sloppy mess with melting snow, and overcast.
I had worked up a number of loads in Auto Rim cases, and also grabbed some of my standard
"good ammo" .45 ACP reloads with my own cast real H&G 68s at .452, and a few of my "ordinary
ammo" .45 ACP which is the same bullet, just the commercial verson. Both are 4.8 TG.
The Auto Rim was 4.5 and 5.0 TG under my own H&G 68s at .452, and 6.0 PPistol, 6.5 Unique
and 6.0 BE-86 under 452423 Keith SWC at .452. And I loaded five of my LBT 454 255 WFN
over 6.0 PPistol, and the same under some MP version of 45-270-SAA (originally RCBS).
Turned out the .454 sized LBT 454 255 WFN would not chamber fully, a good sign, I
figured.
Several showed promise, with three in a tight 1" cluster, but then three scattered out to 5-6".
Several did 2-3" for 4 with one at least 6-8" off to the side. Yikes. So, not too happy, expecting
either big throats (seeming unlikely due to not chambering the .454 sized LBTs) or the
super common thread choke.
Got it home, cleaned it well, scrubbing the bore especially well with a new bronze brush
to make sure that traces of lead weren't masquerading as thread choke.
Throats are all .452. One is just a hair tighter, or had a thread of lead in it, would not
initially take the .452 pin gauge, but after few more passes with the bronze brush, it
went thru, crud or lead, I guess.
A .443 pin will drop into the bore.....and stop about 1/8" ahead of the frame. A .440 pin
will drop thru freely, but a .441 stops just at the front edge of the forcing cone, which means
it is thru almost all the frame area and a good light shows that there may still be a trace of lead
there, so I am calling it at 0.002 of thread choke. Will be pulling the barrel and resetting it before
any more shooting. I really wish that S&W would cut this crap out. My guess is that jacketed
ammo doesn't care, so they don't bother to spend the time fitting them correctly. Frustrating
for us lead bullet shooters, though. Clearly a minority opinion.
Forcing cone looks symmetrical and smooth, too. Other than the thread choke, all seems
really well done.
Bill
PM, although sloppy mess with melting snow, and overcast.
I had worked up a number of loads in Auto Rim cases, and also grabbed some of my standard
"good ammo" .45 ACP reloads with my own cast real H&G 68s at .452, and a few of my "ordinary
ammo" .45 ACP which is the same bullet, just the commercial verson. Both are 4.8 TG.
The Auto Rim was 4.5 and 5.0 TG under my own H&G 68s at .452, and 6.0 PPistol, 6.5 Unique
and 6.0 BE-86 under 452423 Keith SWC at .452. And I loaded five of my LBT 454 255 WFN
over 6.0 PPistol, and the same under some MP version of 45-270-SAA (originally RCBS).
Turned out the .454 sized LBT 454 255 WFN would not chamber fully, a good sign, I
figured.
Several showed promise, with three in a tight 1" cluster, but then three scattered out to 5-6".
Several did 2-3" for 4 with one at least 6-8" off to the side. Yikes. So, not too happy, expecting
either big throats (seeming unlikely due to not chambering the .454 sized LBTs) or the
super common thread choke.
Got it home, cleaned it well, scrubbing the bore especially well with a new bronze brush
to make sure that traces of lead weren't masquerading as thread choke.
Throats are all .452. One is just a hair tighter, or had a thread of lead in it, would not
initially take the .452 pin gauge, but after few more passes with the bronze brush, it
went thru, crud or lead, I guess.
A .443 pin will drop into the bore.....and stop about 1/8" ahead of the frame. A .440 pin
will drop thru freely, but a .441 stops just at the front edge of the forcing cone, which means
it is thru almost all the frame area and a good light shows that there may still be a trace of lead
there, so I am calling it at 0.002 of thread choke. Will be pulling the barrel and resetting it before
any more shooting. I really wish that S&W would cut this crap out. My guess is that jacketed
ammo doesn't care, so they don't bother to spend the time fitting them correctly. Frustrating
for us lead bullet shooters, though. Clearly a minority opinion.
Forcing cone looks symmetrical and smooth, too. Other than the thread choke, all seems
really well done.
Bill
Last edited:
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Actually, when you take them apart.....the pin doesn't touch anything at all on the barrel until it has rotated
a few degrees. They just mill a notch in the threads and it lines up with where the pin goes, but only the
thread tension actually holds the barrel in place, although it can't unscrew but maybe 5 deg without taking
the pin out.
Until I took one apart, I had thought what most folks imagine, that they snug up the barrel then drill through and
have a perfect lock between the barrel and the because of the pin. Not actually the case.
AK barrels, gas blocks and front sights, and AR gas block/front sights are pinned on by drilling after
pushing into place, but not S&W bbls. The pin just keeps it from falling out, and actually, when you get
down to it, the pins did absolutely nothing, never touched anything except the frame, so they deleted it.
Bill
a few degrees. They just mill a notch in the threads and it lines up with where the pin goes, but only the
thread tension actually holds the barrel in place, although it can't unscrew but maybe 5 deg without taking
the pin out.
Until I took one apart, I had thought what most folks imagine, that they snug up the barrel then drill through and
have a perfect lock between the barrel and the because of the pin. Not actually the case.
AK barrels, gas blocks and front sights, and AR gas block/front sights are pinned on by drilling after
pushing into place, but not S&W bbls. The pin just keeps it from falling out, and actually, when you get
down to it, the pins did absolutely nothing, never touched anything except the frame, so they deleted it.
Bill
Last edited:
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Kinda like. But apparently the older ones were drilled in after the bbl was set up right, but
without the milled slot in the 'intermediate' barrels.
I have never pulled the barrel on a really old S&W - because I have not run into one with thread
choke. So, I haven't seen what there is with those for the pin, but I am told the older ones were
drilled in afterwards, no premade slot.
I opened up another thread on the barrel work, if anyone is interested
in how that went.
Bill
without the milled slot in the 'intermediate' barrels.
I have never pulled the barrel on a really old S&W - because I have not run into one with thread
choke. So, I haven't seen what there is with those for the pin, but I am told the older ones were
drilled in afterwards, no premade slot.
I opened up another thread on the barrel work, if anyone is interested
in how that went.
Bill
Arlon
Member
I had a lot of issues getting a 625 JM to be "bearable". It was horrible when I got it, better after a trip to S&W but still not making me happy. There was one flier from every group. I found one tight cylinder bore (no pin gauges, just feel of a jacketed .452 bullet). There were 5 bores that were a snug fit for the .452 bullet and one it would take a hammer to get through. I carefully polished out the tight one and my one constant flier went away. Still groups were nothing to write home about. A friends model of 1989 shoots much tighter groups. I've blamed it on EDM vs cut rifling. If I can't get it to shoot cast, it has to go on down the road (Doesn't shoot factory ball any better than my cast). Still plan to play with loads and such but this particular 625-JM has ben an exercise in frustration for me. I really don't have a way to tell if it is chocked at the barrel threads but it surely could be.
Bass Ackward
Active Member
While a gun should come correct from the factory, you can ask the gun what’s wrong.
Look for the impact pattern in the forcing cone for a hint of the one chamber misalignment. Look at the frame where the crane joins up. Look for shiny impact points there & on the crane pad itself. Another point to check is the notches in the cylinder where the stop moves up into to the slot. Run your fingernail along the outside of the notch from both directions. If you have a chamber that is striving to line up, there will be burs on one side of the affected notch with the problem chamber directly opposite of that notch. If all of this is well, then there is little chance of a major alignment issue and you may still have a tight throat issue that is not adequately resolved.
For the choke test, you can get a lead ball or fishing sinker large enough to need gentle tapping into the bore. Lube the bore lightly before hand, then push your slug through the bore with a wooden dowl rod. It will slide uniformly and lock up like a bank vault if you hit a choke. You won’t know how much the choke is, just that it’s there. If it flops out, that is not an issue.
Look for the impact pattern in the forcing cone for a hint of the one chamber misalignment. Look at the frame where the crane joins up. Look for shiny impact points there & on the crane pad itself. Another point to check is the notches in the cylinder where the stop moves up into to the slot. Run your fingernail along the outside of the notch from both directions. If you have a chamber that is striving to line up, there will be burs on one side of the affected notch with the problem chamber directly opposite of that notch. If all of this is well, then there is little chance of a major alignment issue and you may still have a tight throat issue that is not adequately resolved.
For the choke test, you can get a lead ball or fishing sinker large enough to need gentle tapping into the bore. Lube the bore lightly before hand, then push your slug through the bore with a wooden dowl rod. It will slide uniformly and lock up like a bank vault if you hit a choke. You won’t know how much the choke is, just that it’s there. If it flops out, that is not an issue.