EMMETT.

[fiver]

okay buddy it's time to get some good neck measurements on that 0-6 of yours.
gimme 2 measurements on the outside of a fired case, one near the shoulder and one just back from the mouth.
then 2- 90* apart on the inside.
then again 2- 90* apart on the thickness of the brass.

 

[fiver]

@Mitty38
glad your back home from the hospital and everything is okay.
just wanted you to see this so we could get things going on your rifle.

 

[Mitty38]

OK, Finally went to My storage unit, and got my my good measuring tools today.

Took measurements off of 20 federal brass and averaged them. The round was 180 grain factory load. They were all once fired from my Savage.
OD on neck by Shoulder measurements averaged .3422
Variance between the 2, 90 degree measurements an average of .0001
OD Mouth measurements averaged .3430
Variance between the 2, 90 degree measurements an average of .0008
ID Mouth measurements .050 back averaged .3098
Variance between the 2, 90 degree measurements an average of .0006
Wall Thickness measured an average of .0164
Does this help??

 

[Ian]

Is there flare left? The neck is showing a reverse taper. Other than that it's pretty much what wojld be expected. Those neck walls are thicker than usual, do you have a tubing mic?

 

[fiver]

yep.
those are some thick cases.
I wasn't expecting a parallel neck.
but the cases could be thicker back near the shoulder and just didn't expand like the mouth did.

and you have a fairly tight chamber, that makes things some easier.
you could just about hand seat 311 cast bullets or never size them like I was doing for one of the 7 mausers we used to have, just by cleaning up the case on the neck..

anyway give me a couple of days to finish up these 25-06 cases I'm working on. [ I have to totally work them over, changing the shoulder placement, and trimming them etc.]

I will pull out the 0-6 cases I have set to the side and measure them out to see what I need to get them close to your measurements there.
I doubt I have any cases near that thick, but it should be no problem setting the tension etc. though.

 

[Mitty38]

Just measured down in the neck by the taper on a couple got an ID measurement of. .3096 so they are a bit thicker at the base of the shoulder.
I was also measuring the shoulder end of the neck, on the 20, pretty much right at the shoulder crease, so being so close to the crease might account for some of that.

 

[Mitty38]

Is there flare left? The neck is showing a reverse taper. Other than that it's pretty much what wojld be expected. Those neck walls are thicker than usual, do you have a tubing mic?

No I am using a set of pointed jaws, on a caliper. Not sure of the proper name but they have points on them instead of flats.

 

[Ian]

I meant for the wall thickness. If there's any vestiges of crimp or flare remaining on the fired case mouth or it hasn't been chamfered, a measurement with caliper jaws (od) will show thicker than the neck wall really is. Also, the tiny flat on the inside jaw will span a chord acrods the neck if and add a thousandth or so to the indicated reading.

 

[Mitty38]

Btw 460 May gave me like 200 30 caliber wheel weight cast bullets.They have the tumble lube grooves and measure . 312 to .313. Have not got around to weighing them yet.

 

[Mitty38]

I meant for the wall thickness. If there's any vestiges of crimp or flare remaining on the fired case mouth or it hasn't been chamfered, a measurement with caliper jaws (od) will show thicker than the neck wall really is. Also, the tiny flat on the inside jaw will span a chord acrods the neck if and add a thousandth or so to theindicated reading.

Oh, I actually just measured them as fired.
I did measure the OD down the neck . 050 or so, from the end.

 

[Mitty38]

but the cases could be thicker back near the shoulder and just didn't expand like the mouth did.

Just for kicks with my morning coffee,...
Measured 20 of them a .010 further off the base of the neck for OD, got an average of .3429.
Variance between the 2, 90 degree measurements an average of .0003
This is really close to being the same size OD of the top of the neck.
Figure the difference is probably operator error and not having all the right tools and training.Or I must have been measuring to close to the bend, or on a thick spot like you said.???
P.S. @Ian- I am very limited in the precision tool category.
I am working with an old Craftsman micrometer- caliper set that is for automotive and is only marked for Thousandths plus a half (.0015) Plus my formal training is mostly with feeler gauges and the like. Thus my taking measurements on 20 cases and averaging them to get a result.
Me using calipers and a mike is Kinda like an ape trying to use a tape measure, so you will have to bear with me a bit.

 

[fiver]

this is a good training exercise then.
we deal in .001's.
less is better, but 1 is good enough if it's repeatable.
there is a goal here the idea is just to get you on the path of being comfortable with your tools and gun measurements.

 

[Mitty38]

Ok, did not want to start a new thread or railroad some on else's to ask this.

Red dot.
Been playing with my Back stock a bit.
Now I have about 8 lb of older stuff 15 years old or so from my uncles estate.
2 pound of newer stuff, I would guess about 5 years old or less.
Now it seams to me that once you get past about 3 grain the newer stuff is cleaner and needs about 3 percent less to do the same job.
I am wondering, is the old stuff going bad, I am pretty sure it was stored right. No clumps or anything. Should I throw it away for safety same?

 

[freebullet]

Powder don't really go bad. If it was there'd be rusty gel looking stuff oozing from the container. If you want it all the same blend it. If you want to stay safe give me the powder.

 

[Mitty38]

I did not think it was. Just the first time I ran into that much variation when changing lots. Kinda weird plus the fact that the newer powder runs cleaner.
Wander if it is just a variation in lots, or just they may have changed the formula a bit in the 10 years between lots.
Thinking the new powder may just get put up and the older used up first. Just do not like the Idea of blending. What if they changed the formula and something in the new reacts with something in the old?

 

[Ian]

Read the powder manuals and reloading manuals. Lots can vary by as much as 10%. That's why ALWAYS work up from starting loads with a new powder, or different lot.

While most canister-grade powders through the years vary much less than 10% and some nearly none at all, the medium ball powders are all over the map. H335, Ball C-2, and WW748 have crazy variances and different temperature sensitivity from lot to lot.

 

[Mitty38]

Read the powder manuals and reloading manuals. Lots can vary by as much as 10%. That's why ALWAYS work up from starting loads with a new powder, or different lot.

While most canister-grade powders through the years vary much less than 10% and some nearly none at all, the medium ball powders are all over the map. H335, Ball C-2, and WW748 have crazy variances and different temperature sensitivity from lot to lot.

Some how I missed that, those large of deviations exist.
Have read 3 loading manuals thru end to end
I have followed the advice to back off your load 10 percent and work it back up everytime you start with a new jug.
Just did not realize there was that much of a variance. Figured that it was just them being lawyer safe.

 

[Ian]

It's both.

 

[fiver]

the new red-dot has nitro glycerin added to it.
that's where the 'cleaner burning' tag come from.
the first batches [late 90's] had 2%, the new black label stuff [201? sumthin new] has about 3%.

I kind of wish they'd do a version of green-dot [not American select] because that would put it closer to the old red-dot burn speed,, but with the cleaner burn.
only problem with that is you'd then lose the wonderful green-dot smooth recoil feeling.

 

[462]

Deleted. Posted in the wrong sub-forum.