Ethics of Low velocity hunting loads

[Kevin Stenberg]

I am very interested in getting a Large Bore Air rifle for hunting deer. But i am concerned with hunting with a subsonic load.
The guns i am looking at can be gotten in 30 / 35 / 45 / 50 caliber. They all can be fed the cast bullets i already load, and all calibers will handle any bullets there are molds for.
The top velocities i have seen are just under supersonic load level.
Yes i know that if the bullet is placed in the heart lung area the deer is going down. But i also know that some shots have to go through bone. An that is what bothers me about subsonic hunting loads.

 

[Ian]

.45 caliber, reasonable ranges, good shot placement, and the deadly nature of a large-caliber soft lead slug do quite well from what I've seen on some of the utoob hunting channels. Lots of critters with two and four legs have been killed with less power than a good PCP has.

 

[RBHarter]

A 250-265 gr 45 at 1050 fps will punch through 2' of hog and cut the soft part of the scapula and exit at nearly 50 yd . That using an original round groove 454424 @ 257 gr , an NOE version with the fat square groove @250 gr and a 452-255 RNFP @ 265 gr . That's a big fat nose to slow up penetration on the 424s but they went all the way out .

 

[Brad]

Always questioned stuff like this.
Nobody doubts a guy who hunts with a 45 Colt revolver- a 250 gr bullet at 1000 FPS.
Same guy uses a rifle in 45 Colt and a load using a 250 gr bullet at 1000 FPS and suddenly it is grossly under powerred.

Use enough weight and diameter, put it where it needs to be, and keep ranges reasonable. Sounds like some venison is in your future.

 

[RBHarter]

Yes they do question guys with a 45 Colts if they aren't loaded to the full potential of the Ruger BlackHawk and TC data they just aren't as capable as the 44 mag ......... Or something like that .......
Strange but true after much belittlement for my choice to follow ftlb (it was the terms of the game laws my whole life) I ran the TKO numbers and I'll tell you weird things happen in there . An 800 fps MV 350gr 45 is nearly double of a 1300 fps 255 is . I was using book numbers Colts vs 454 and the 460 only barely closed the difference between the 255 and the 350 . You'd think the 45-70 and 458 WM would be close sharing bullets and all ........... I guess somewhere in the math dwell time comes in to play over explosive tissue disruption .

 

[JustJim]

A 250 grain SWC with an impact velocity of about 1,000 fps will usually break the offside shoulder of a mule deer, after penetrating through the body cavity--but it doesn't always exit. A .490 round ball with an impact velocity of around 900 fps will usually exit when taking the same shot.

I once killed a bear with a 45 auto. Load was a cast flat point (about like the FP bullet Hornady used to make) at 850-900 fps. Several of the shots were through-and-through, bones were broken, bear was dead. NOT my choice, but it did the job.

Based on that experience, if I were going to hunt with an airgun I'd probably go for the biggest bore I could find, and hunt as close as I could.

 

[Ian]

Pretty sure Winelover and Mrs Winelover can confirm that percussion revolvers make venison quite effectively. I know I can!

 

[RicinYakima]

Depending upon range, having used the 50/70 at 1200 f/s will shoot side to side through a bison. FWIW

 

[Brad]

So does a 560 gr Minie from a rifled musket at maybe 1000 FPS at the muzzle. You can even hear it zip off into the distance after it exits the off side.

 

[RBHarter]

What was that phrase " hit a bone with a 45 and the limb goes with it" or something like that .

The only down side of the 45 is the aerodynamics . It takes about 400 gr to get out of the .200s and then only with Money and similar shapes . On the other hand inside 70 yd I don't think it matters .

What weights are they pushing these days at just under SS ?

 

[Kevin Stenberg]

I will go back to the website an get some #'s
45 cal 250 gr bullet 793 fps 350 fp energy
350 gr bullet 714 fps 396 fp energy
405 gr bullet 670 fps 400 fp energy
35 cal 127 gr bullet 950 fps 250 fp energy
160 gr bullet 875 fps 270 fp energy
190 gr bullet 850 fps 300 fp energy
30 cal 132 gr bullet 900 fps 238 fp energy
156 gr bullet 880 fps 270 fp energy
171 gr bullet 850 fps 275 fp energy
I had it all listed so nice and in posting it the orientation changed.

 

[Charles Graff]

If a hunter can kill his prey with one well placed shot, it is ethical to use the gun in question. If the hunter can't hit his prey with one well placed shot, then it is unethical to take the shot, no matter the gun.

 

[RBHarter]

I used the 244 gr NOE 45 gr air gun bullet with a BC of .118 at 1050 for this one .

 

[Brad]

A 250 gr 45 at 800 FPS? Sounds a lot like the old BP load for 45 Colt. Nobody ever called that underpowered.

 

[CZ93X62]

From the 7.5" SAA barrel, those BP 250-255 grain bullets ran closer to 1000 FPS. The BP 45 Colt was and is no joke. Its design specs called for it to penetrate through a cavalry mount and wound a "hostile" using that mount as cover. Enough said. If you can place the shot, the round will do the job.

A nearby agency or two used to authorize the 45 Colt in the S&W Model 25-5 for duty use. I was quite envious of the guys and gals on those agencies that were able to carry real armament on the street. The caliber is no less capable in the game fields, as is any projectile that mimics its capabilities. The increased sight radius and/or scope sighting enables more certain shot placement also. I don't see a down-side to the 45 caliber PCP hunting rifle, myself.

 

[RBHarter]

This is the 460-244 NOE at 800 fps . 10mph 90° 92.92 inhg 50% humidity 59°F .

 

[popper]

25 yds (40sw @ ~950 fps, ~300 '-#) texas heart shot comes out the front of a 150# hog. Talked to a guy at the range with really nice air gun, 357. He did fine. Problem is carrying the air tank if an extended hunt. Going to send my 177 springer down to daughter for armadillos. can't use it in town anymore. Does real good on rabbits.

 

[Bret4207]

An awful lot of game was taken with some real low powered stuff over the years. A lot was wounded too. I think knowing the range and shot placement is going to be key.

 

[L Ross]

Depending upon range, having used the 50/70 at 1200 f/s will shoot side to side through a bison. FWIW

Your bison and a few million more were killed with that caliber alone.