smokeywolf
Well-Known Member
Nicholson is better than most, but not as good as they used to be. Simonds and Grobet are still pretty good. Most useful files are, "mill bastard" and "long angle lathe file".
Files
- Thread starter Brad
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smokeywolf
Well-Known Member
Going slightly out on a limb here...... it's OK though,left the saw on the ground...
Like a metal cutting BS blade,a file can use a bit of "breaking in". Use it on some mild steel,easy at first. I would stay away from the "drags" on a chainsaw with a new mill file. Which is the problem with file cards.....the "needles" on the card are hardened to a degree? and cause undo wear.
Like a metal cutting BS blade,a file can use a bit of "breaking in". Use it on some mild steel,easy at first. I would stay away from the "drags" on a chainsaw with a new mill file. Which is the problem with file cards.....the "needles" on the card are hardened to a degree? and cause undo wear.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Depth gauges, "rakers" in older chainsaw terminology, do get hard and are hard to start with. Part of the problem is that. And that can be added to if you are getting them hot and then setting the saw down in snow, sort of quenches the hot raker and tooth. This gives the classic "whut the heck?" moment when that new files that cut so good 2 hours ago now skates across the tooth. Another part of the problem is what kind of chain you use. There are some chains out there with enormous, sort of bent over, rakers. They take forever to file. A standard Oregon. Stihl or Carlton raker shouldn't be a huge effort to file. You want to get a raker file from a saw shop. IMO Stihl is currently making good ones, Pferd makes about the best and they may be what Stihl sells. You don't want a standard mill bastard or even a fine cut mill file. Get a dedicated raker file. They are made for the job, with safe edges. If you are using a raker gauge they are made of hardened steel and will dull the file over time if you are the type that wants to take the sucker down as far as it will go. And of course you can only file a raker in the direction it leans, otherwise they chatter something fierce and ruin you file. Try it and you'll see they cut much, much easier in one direction than the other. Keep the raker file, and all you saw files, as clean as you can and if you really want to do it right store them immersed in a can of diesel or very light oil to prevent rust. Use a file card on them and get the waste off. A good file card will have a stiff brush on one side and the steel wires on the other. If you don't go crazy with the steel side you won't hurt the file. Chainsaw files are going to last a while and then need replacement, just like any cutting tool. I never seem to throw any of mine away, I must have 100 of them around here.
Files can be sharpened by cleaning them as good as you can, degreasing them and immersing them in nitric (etching) acid/water bath for 5-10 minutes at a time according to the You Tube experts. The ratio I have seen is 50/50 but I used it straight for about 3 minutes and then checked the teeth. You can do this at home. After the acid bath you rinse them and give them a wash in a solution of baking soda and soft water. The you immediately dry them (hair drier) and immerse in oil/rust preventative. You are literally eating away the metal, so experiment a little before you ruin one that's irreplaceable. I have a couple of those irreplaceable ones that haven't been made in 50 years or more. Of course use PP gear and be careful.
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RBHarter
West Central AR
We cut wood commercially years ago . We bought 12 volt grinders and diamond stones for the carbide chains .
To be honest I don't what the make up was of the chains but those ran about a 1/3 to half again longer than Oregon chains . We were 80 miles from basically anything but a cow ranch homestead .
We'd sharpen 3-4x and take a cut off the rakes and swap chains every 7x or if we dinged a chain . I hand filed a bunch of chains back then with a hand jig tool . I believe Nicholson was what was available to us then .
I also cut a lot of brass , copper , and aluminum . I gave up on cards and chalking when we found Kroil . The swarf just falls out with a light bump and rolls out of the cut line .
I've had the joy of of draw filing many sand damaged props on boats and airplanes and more than a few tubular exhaust flanges and a number of other faces I probably shouldn't have been anywhere near with a file .
To be honest I don't what the make up was of the chains but those ran about a 1/3 to half again longer than Oregon chains . We were 80 miles from basically anything but a cow ranch homestead .
We'd sharpen 3-4x and take a cut off the rakes and swap chains every 7x or if we dinged a chain . I hand filed a bunch of chains back then with a hand jig tool . I believe Nicholson was what was available to us then .
I also cut a lot of brass , copper , and aluminum . I gave up on cards and chalking when we found Kroil . The swarf just falls out with a light bump and rolls out of the cut line .
I've had the joy of of draw filing many sand damaged props on boats and airplanes and more than a few tubular exhaust flanges and a number of other faces I probably shouldn't have been anywhere near with a file .
KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
Can you adjust your tailstock to get out the taper? I have to do that sometimes on my manual lathe when I move it closer or farther away from the chuck. My CNC lathe is close enough and is used so infrequently to turn between centers that I just generally program the taper out by putting in slightly different starting and ending coordinates when turning.
A lathe file is supposed to have the same rectangular cross-section for length, it is the same width from handle to tip. The single cut teeth at a 45* makes it self cleaning and allows you to use the file positioned perpendicularly to the rotational axis and lets you file right up to a shoulder. IIRC it should also have one "safe" edge and one toothed edge. If you use one right you can see the tiny slivers roll right off the workpiece and file and fall clear. WIth a typical 30/60* tooth angle you have to turn the file away from the perpendicular to get the shearing action and makes it hard to file up to a square shoulder.
A lathe file is supposed to have the same rectangular cross-section for length, it is the same width from handle to tip. The single cut teeth at a 45* makes it self cleaning and allows you to use the file positioned perpendicularly to the rotational axis and lets you file right up to a shoulder. IIRC it should also have one "safe" edge and one toothed edge. If you use one right you can see the tiny slivers roll right off the workpiece and file and fall clear. WIth a typical 30/60* tooth angle you have to turn the file away from the perpendicular to get the shearing action and makes it hard to file up to a square shoulder.
JWFilips
Well-Known Member
I too use the HF Bronze Bristle tooth brushes as cards. I did find a nice wide bronze grill cleaning brush for my shop. Very heavy duty and great on big mill files. Now for aluminum crud build up ....I just spend the time cleauing each tooth at a time with the tip of a #11 exacto blade!
Calcium Carbonate sticks( chalk) help when filing aluminum but even then Aluminum with a file is still a PITA.
In my 18th C Gunshop my files are divided into group ; one set for brass and one set for iron / steel and never to be mixed! ( I spay the shanks of the brass files with gold paint so as not to mix them up! A great way to ruin a good brass file is to use it on steel.
I also have somewhere on my computer a company that sharpens old worn files! They claim they can get up to 98% or original on most! Hard to believe but I never tried them. Like I said I have, I guess, a life time supply of files for my gun and shop work.The only two that I spend good money on are the #49 and # 50 Nicolson wood rasps for stock shaping, No other rasps can even come close to what the can do.
The 49 is the workhorse for shaping and the 50 is for fine tuning the shaping. Definitely the best tools for gunstock work
Jim
Calcium Carbonate sticks( chalk) help when filing aluminum but even then Aluminum with a file is still a PITA.
In my 18th C Gunshop my files are divided into group ; one set for brass and one set for iron / steel and never to be mixed! ( I spay the shanks of the brass files with gold paint so as not to mix them up! A great way to ruin a good brass file is to use it on steel.
I also have somewhere on my computer a company that sharpens old worn files! They claim they can get up to 98% or original on most! Hard to believe but I never tried them. Like I said I have, I guess, a life time supply of files for my gun and shop work.The only two that I spend good money on are the #49 and # 50 Nicolson wood rasps for stock shaping, No other rasps can even come close to what the can do.
The 49 is the workhorse for shaping and the 50 is for fine tuning the shaping. Definitely the best tools for gunstock work
Jim
RBHarter
West Central AR
30-35 yr ago kind of a blur , I know that later on the file jig was replaced with a Drimel powered version . The good tools didn't come until after it was back to hobby/home and friends status .
JonB
Halcyon member
This file resharpening thing was brought up on the other forum...I had never heard of this before. Anyway, The place is Boggs Tool in CA. I sent them a couple fists full of old USA made files to resharpen. They were my Dad's and were rusty, dull, and ugly. Most of them came back and were like NEW. They don't charge that much, like $1 or $2 for files under 12".
Welcome to Boggs Tool Company
boggstool.com
Some of the files I sent in, Didn't turn out good enough to meet their standards after resharpening, They don't find that out, until the inspection after the full process, if they don't pass they return them with the rest of the files at no charge. The few I received that were rejected were still usable for certain things...But honest to God, all the others were like new.
The Photo is what the files looked like before I sent them in. I never did take a photo of them after I got them back.
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Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Carbide 35 years ago? Maybe, but if it was something you could file that sounds like steel to me. Carbide chains started out in the fire/rescue biz and became a "thing" in the mid to late 90's by my memory. Had a guy I worked with bought a loop and thought it meant he'd never have to sharpen a chain again. He found out that, as with carbide wood saw blades and lathe tools, carbide stays "sharp" a lot longer but it takes more power to pull them. Different tooth geometry. He also found out that driving the chain to the saw shop for grinding got old. But he's one of those guys that is always right, so it was a brilliant decision regardless.
Sure you aren't thinking of "chisel" chain? Or maybe "Carlton" chain?
wquiles
Well-Known Member
I have not used them yet, but found several excellent feedback on https://boggstool.com/ when I searched for a reliable sharpening service 1-2 years ago.
RBHarter
West Central AR
I do remember that they ran twice as long as the "standard" . We were sawing green/live pinion' pine . It was from Northern Hydraulics circa 83'-84' . The teeth were a round conture vs the square of the chisel styles . It seems like we changed the face angles too , flatter cut faster . . Long time ago , it may have just been marketed that way , it may have just been a fortified cutter . I do remember thinking it was odd that the cutter was one piece and we never had a shattered link .
We cut just over 200 cords one summer at our best . Crew of 5 , 125 split , stacked , ready to deliver , the other 75+ was split and delivered .
Glory days indeed .
Diamond bits in the sharpening tools .
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Boy, I dunno. That was when I was in the logging/chainsaw biz. It doesn't ring any bells. Chipper type chain has a rounded corner, was recommended for dirty wood as it would stay sharper longer in theory. I've never seen a saw chain where the cutting link wasn't one piece- right cutter, 2 side straps, spacer (s), side straps, spacer, side straps, left cutter, etc. Who knows, that was long time ago!