First post here

reddsurion

reddsurion

New Member
Hello from Panama City, FL
Thanks for having me.
This is my first post here and looking forward to learning from the experts on casting and reloading. I have been reloading various calibers for years both in rifles and pistols. I always thought it would be satisfying to make my own bullets to reload with. Before all the mass run on everything I was able to get myself two different style melting pots ( a Lee pro, and an RCBS) I was also able to obtain a casting dipper and a mold for my 45ACP. I have also been able to get a LEE hardness tester, Books on casting along with a few other items that I will probably never use.
Currently I have been going to the outdoor range that I am a member of and getting spent lead from the berms we use for the back stops. I then clean the spent bullets and melt them down using a cast iron skillet and propane burner, flux the lead and pour the molten lead into the muffin pan I use for my ingot mold. I have a few dozen ingot and they average 1.5lbs a piece. I am currently working on getting the BHN right for the bullets. I have cast a few bullets on two separate occasions BHN changes drastically from one session to the second. I quickly discovered that I need to figure out a way to check each ingot for its BHN hardness so I can match the softer ones with the harder ones to get the bullet BHN I am looking for. I never thought the spread would be so drastic from on set of ingots to the next set. So , I will back up figure a way of testing the ingots and start fresh again.
Again thanks for having me.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
Welcome! You're off to a good start but are about to get wrung out over worrying too much about hardness....especially for the .45 ACP which I'll wager is THE single most forgiving chambering a cast bullet could wish for.

Testing ingots doesn't tell you much because the rate of cooling is so much different than bullets, and rate of cooling affects the measured hardness of antimony-containing lead alloy greatly. You may also have just learned that alloying in large batches is much better for consistency than melting up a few pounds of scrap here and there.

The other thing that confuses the matter is age-hardening. It takes from a few days to months for antimony dendrites to precipitate and strengthen the metal, particularly antimony in excess of tin present in the mix.

Have you cast any bullets yet?
 
RBHarter

RBHarter

West Central AR
Welcome .
That's one of the bugs in range scrap . Unless you sort it to a starting point or make big batches it's hit and miss otherwise .
 
reddsurion

reddsurion

New Member
Thank you,
I have cast two sperate sets about 100 each time two weeks apart. I'm not to badly worried over the BHN just wanting to get them closer together. The first set (two weeks ago) has a BHN of 12.5 the second set cast Saturday has a BHN of 31.4.
Like I said not trying to go for a specific number just trying to get them closer to each other. Like you said don't want to get hung up on something that really doesn't matter
 
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S Mac

S Mac

Sept. 10, 2021 Steve left us. You are missed.
Welcome. You could melt it down once more, mix together and have one uniform batch.
 
reddsurion

reddsurion

New Member
RBHarter said:
Welcome .
That's one of the bugs in range scrap . Unless you sort it to a starting point or make big batches it's hit and miss otherwise .
Click to expand...
Figure I will start checking ingots before I cast and mix some harder ones with some softer ones to maybe bring the BHN to a more consistent level. Not trying to be perfect in a 45ACP just looking for a closer range on the BHN
 
reddsurion

reddsurion

New Member
Ian said:
Welcome! You're off to a good start but are about to get wrung out over worrying too much about hardness....especially for the .45 ACP which I'll wager is THE single most forgiving chambering a cast bullet could wish for.

Testing ingots doesn't tell you much because the rate of cooling is so much different than bullets, and rate of cooling affects the measured hardness of antimony-containing lead alloy greatly. You may also have just learned that alloying in large batches is much better for consistency than melting up a few pounds of scrap here and there.

The other thing that confuses the matter is age-hardening. It takes from a few days to months for antimony dendrites to precipitate and strengthen the metal, particularly antimony in excess of tin present in the mix.

Have you cast any bullets yet?
Click to expand...
Thank you,
I have cast two sperate sets about 100 each time two weeks apart. I'm not to badly worried over the BHN just wanting to get them closer together. The first set (two weeks ago) has a BHN of 12.5 the second set cast Saturday has a BHN of 31.4.
Like I said not trying to go for a specific number just trying to get them closer to each other. Like you said don't want to get hung up on something that really doesn't matter
 
Brad

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
I use range scrap like yours for almost all my casting needs. It works very well in all handguns I have tried it in.
I wouldn’t get concerned with BHn at all. For most handgun shooting it just doesn’t matter. Use an alloy like yours and cast away.
Size makes a far bigger impact than hardness, like orders of magnitude larger.

Oh yah, welcome to the forum. You will find a good group of guys here.
 
reddsurion

reddsurion

New Member
Brad said:
I use range scrap like yours for almost all my casting needs. It works very well in all handguns I have tried it in.
I wouldn’t get concerned with BHn at all. For most handgun shooting it just doesn’t matter. Use an alloy like yours and cast away.
Size makes a far bigger impact than hardness, like orders of magnitude larger.

Oh yah, welcome to the forum. You will find a good group of guys here.
Click to expand...
understood and appreciated, Thank you
 
462

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
Howdy from the other end of the continent.

Here's a recent thread about alloy hardness that is overflowing with important stuff, and stuff to ponder:

Common Alloys And Their Uses

I have been reading more and more about alloys. It kind of fascinates me. I started with the great document by Glen at lasc about how the monolithic, dual alloy (forget the term) and tertiary alloys work together. All the terms make sense (except that one term I cannot remember. But when to use...
www.artfulbullet.com www.artfulbullet.com
 
CZ93X62

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Welcome to the site and to the hobby/addiction/diversion. I concur that hardness is over-emphasized GROSSLY in a lot of shooting publications, and that sizing is the primary focus to hone in on for best results. 45 ACP and 38 Special are likely the most castings-friendly calibers you can deal with as a handloader. This is largely because the 38 Special and 45 ACP have historically had pretty strict adherence to dimensional consistency in their throating, unlike a number of other popular handgun calibers. Both calibers run at fairly mild pressures, too--and that makes things less complicated. FWIW, I have run pure lead castings in 38 S&W to 700 FPS and 38 Special to almost 900 FPS with accuracy as good as my usual alloys like WW and 92/6/2.

BHn of 31+........Hijo la! That is some RICH alloy.

A lot of the posters here are rather iconoclastic, myself included. Few pursuits give me as much pleasure as taking some classic misconception about lead bullets and skewering it thoroughly with experimentation and discovery.
 
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fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
yeah rich is right,, that's damn near pure tin hardness.
or straight to ice water instantly from 600-700F,, BHN type number.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
Maximum heat treat on true Magnum shot gets to 35 if it contains enough arsenic. I can't even see small enough to measure a dimple smaller than the 20-24 bhn range with 20x.
 
Rick

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Ian said:
Maximum heat treat on true Magnum shot gets to 35 if it contains enough arsenic. I can't even see small enough to measure a dimple smaller than the 20-24 bhn range with 20x.
Click to expand...

No not Arsenic, it is possible to hit a very useless 35 BHN if the alloy contains enough Antimony. Any Arsenic percentage over about 0.5% is pretty useless and will gain you very little. With arsenic for a hardening agent in a lead antimony alloy it's far more important that it's there rather than how much.

Arsenic is only in dropped shot because it won't drop round with it and not for the hardening effect.

Wheel weight with 2% Sn and proper heat treating will reach 30 BHN. Another useless goal. I know, I tested it extensively in a 454. It's not needed and can actually be detrimental to accuracy.
 
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