Fixing a Lee Pro-4000 press...sort of.

[Ian]

First, don't buy one of these things. The press is a fantastic idea, poorly executed.

But if you do buy one, and the holes in the top plate don't line up with the shell holder because the ram wobbles and there are no guides for the shellplate carrier, don't despair. Don't despair if you have a milling machine, some tool steel rod, and a bunch of fixturing tooling laying about, that is.

Since the shell plate is drilled for an alignment rod in the press base to pass through on the bottom of the stroke, and there is just enough material between the die holes in the top plate to replicate that guide pin on the top, and the steel part of the shell plate carrier is relieved in not one but two places for alignment pins, then all one has to do is drill, ream, and press some 1/4" steel guide pins into the bottom side of the top plate. You just have to get them in EXACTLY the right place.

I didn't photo the 3 hour process but basically I used the shell plate and cartridge cases in all the dies as a guide so I could spot, drill, and ream two holes a thousandth undersized. I disassembled the plastic cladding on the carrier and clearanced it for the additional guide pin. The other guide pin runs in the same hole the bottom guide pin does. Now, as the carrier nears the top of the stroke and cases begin entering the dies, the two new guide pins stab through the shell plate and force it into alignment with the dies.

 

[Ben]

Gee, whatever happened to buying a reloading press and expecting and hoping that it was made , engineered, and designed properly to work as advertised. People ( me included ) get tired of having to do this kind of thing with Lee products. I'm certain many will say, " I've bought this, that, and the other " from Lee and never had a problem. Great, you're fortunate, but it doesn't always work out that way as Ian can confirm.

A great fix Ian, but as we all know many beginning reloaders would have to return the press to Lee ( on their nickel ) or would simply be stuck with the press because they wouldn't have the tooling and skill level to correct the problem.

 

[462]

Well done!

Is it really a design flaw, or did your press slip past Shirley's less than critical eye?

 

[fiver]

it was probably that last swing with the metal stool... LOL
bet the case feeder works like a champ though.

 

[Ian]

Oh no, they screwed that up too. The slider and link for the case feeder has been redesigned and now doesn't work as well as the old ones. Not happy. I really enjoy my Pro-1000s and they have given me good service, but if Lee wants to make a 4-station progressive press they really need to be using Classic Turret press parts, including the turret-style die plate and central indexing guide rod.

I managed to get six boxes of .45 ACP loaded tonight but this press is awkward to use and frankly rinky-dink. The roller handle has a stroke so long that my arm can't follow it without switching my palm over the top mid-stroke. It needs a stiff tube handle with a ball on the end like the old days. Dispensing a primer with the handle all the way down puts my face inches from the primer cup, which doesn't thrill me any.

I was this >< close to buying a Lock'n'Load AP this afternoon. Might still happen if I can get over my extreme dislike of loading linear primer feed tubes. If not, I'm pretty sure this Pro-4000 is still going away and the old reliable Pro-1000 going in its place since it has proven to be faster and less laborious to load on the full progressive and crimp on a single stage.

 

[Ian]

Well done!

Is it really a design flaw, or did your press slip past Shirley's less than critical eye?

Compared to the Pro-1000 series that just plain works, the Lee crew abandoned several critical features in the new design. First, instead of casting guides in the shellplate carrier to ride the columns, the ram and carrier just float willy-nilly up to the die plate. When the linkage hits the stops, the ram twists and forcefully misaligns all the cartridges in the plate with the dies, not that the shell plate was aligned with anything to start with. There's a guide pin in the base which was added to control the twist and misalignment on the down stroke, but nothing at the top. To make matters worse, they eliminated what should be a square, auto-indexing guide rod and replaced it with a flimsy, flat strip of metal with a quarter-twist near the bottom. The base plate is mis-made because it has a slot for that strip of metal but it is 90⁰ off, so they just made the strip shorter. To top it off, Lee made an entirely new top plate that takes individual die bushings instead of a single, removable plate, and while that plate seems well and accurately made, it can't float sideways to align with the centrally-piloted shell plate as the shell plate rises and thus compensate for ram wiggle.

The shell plate carrier is sandwiched between two pieces of soft, ABS plastic held together with screws that go through holes that have no bosses to snug against, and if course the factory overtightens them and warps the plastic. The shell plate is supported by only plastic which rests on a sintered metal carrier that has burrs around the edge so there's some air space and flex as the the shell plate is out under pressure as in sizing a fresh case and seating a bullet. I draw-filed the carrier flat and smooth but the plastic layer still doesn't sit completely flush and there's a lot of squish at the top of the stroke. This results in erratic cartridge overall length. The safety-prime unit works ok but I miss the automatic feeder of the Pro-1000 which is also located on the back side of the press where it is away from the user should a primer ever detonate. As mentioned, they even screwed up their excellent case feeding mechanism. It is actuated by a coil spring that binds cols and pushes like a rod instead of having a Z-link. The spring attaches to the press via a plastic bracket with a tiny, flimsy hook cast into it that is really easy to break if a the mouth of a case that didn't quite get shoved home by the feeder contacts it on the upstroke. The handle sucks and has little adjustment. The tiny ram is loose in the press base.

So far all I like is the slight improvement in leverage to seat primers and the hollow ram with primer catch tube on the bottom. All in all not worth having the extra station for all the other problems and design oversights.

 

[Tomme boy]

So how much if I send you my top plate? Been fighting the alignment issue since day one. That's why I only load 9mm on it. Tried 223 on it and kept getting weird fliers. Went back to the single stage and they went away.

I prime off press. When I use the safety prime on it half the primers end up on the floor. It is the newest version of the primer feed. The original worked perfect.

 

[Ian]

Tomme, it isn't worth it. If it works for your 9mm or at least for bulk depriming, I'd consider it a win.

I've loaded jacketed bullets in .223 on a three-stage Pro-1000 using the short rifle charging die. Can't do cast though because no way to expand necks in three steps. You can set up to resize, prime, and expand a batch and then change out the turret head and lock out the primer chute to charge, seat, and crimp with a spring-return Autodisk in station one or blank, charge in the normal station, and seat/crimp in station 3 if you want to use the chain pullback feature.

 

[Tomme boy]

I use a 1000 to size and de prime 9mm right now. Then hand prime then load on the 4000. I use the old spring return on my powder thrower. It was the chain but that was a pain in the rear changing out with fingers that don't work with small things like that. So I called Lee and they sent me the spring and arm for free.

 

[Glaciers]

Well that’s a bad deal for sure.
Myself the most advanced LEE press I have is the Classic cast with 4 positions. Sometimes a fifth position would be nice. I’ve looked at more complicated progressive presses. The turret press is as high tech as I can stand.
Set up right I can kick out 150 pistol cartridges an hour. That’s good enough for me.
if you send it back to LEE can they really repair it if it’s a poor design or manufacturing problem

 

[Ian]

I mainly use turret and progressive presses to minimize repetitive motions which aggravate my already overworked hands. At the pace I go, there isn't much difference between batch loading and progressive, just a lot less picking and placing per round loaded.

 

[Ole_270]

The only progressive I own is a Mec Grabber 12 gauge. I've thought about a Lee Loadmaster a time or two, but don't know if they still make the. Would be nice for loading my most used calibers. Say setup for 45acp, 45 Colt, 25-20, 38-55, all with cast so would need a station for the expander die or purchase one of the powder through types. And the pistol cartridges would need seperate crimping.

 

[Glaciers]

Yeah with 4 station classic cast lee press I decap, NOE expander, LEE powder thru, and seat. Then crimp die, if needed, in a single stage press.

 

[Ole_270]

If I remember right NOE makes the powder through expanders, so might be able to consolidate to a 4 station press. Just would prefer not to have to buy all new ones.

 

[Ian]

A Classic Turret press with the big ram and through-ram primer collection system is mighty handy for multi-caliber considerations.

Here's my main loading station, based around a 4-hole and a custom 3-hole classic cast press (three-hole to the right, not pictured). The coffee cans contain loaded turret heads, dedicated shell holders, dummy cartridges and empties with fired primers for checking the powder drops if charging on-press, also extra neck bushings, seating punches, cartridge gauges, expanding spuds, notes, or anything else pertinent to loading that particular chambering as a complete kit. I buy or make duplicate things as necessary to have a complete kit for each turret and not have to remember which thing I used that .330" neck bushing in last or where is the 311" neck expander. You can use this system like a single-stage and perform one operation on 5 or 500 cases at a time, or load a complete cartridge in three or four handle strokes. You can prime or charge powder on or off the press. Basically this sort of system will let you do anything you want quickly and efficiently. Caliber changes take 20 seconds (including putting away the previous turret) plus time to set up your powder drop. The only things that stay with the press are the auto-index rod, primer punches, and primer dispensers.

 

[Glaciers]

Well I’m not that organized, but, gathered up all small stuff labeled in plastic divider boxes, expanders, sizer bushings, as well as dummies and barrel slugs.

Ian I have been racking my brain on how to store the turret heads for the LEE Classic. Last weekend when it was seriously raining I put theses trays together in my top draw. Keeps them from rolling around and labeled as your coffee cans. About the same price as well.

 

[Ian]

I like it, John. Goes to show there are a lot of ways to use and organize the turret system. I've seen a photo of another set up where the person made a shelf for the loaded turrets out of 1x pine and put it on the wall behind their loading bench. The shelf had holes drilled through for the dies to stick out there bottom.

 

[fiver]

if LEE was gonna make a 'progressive' I don't know why they didn't/don't copy the Dillon 550.
no indexing to worry about, since it's manual, and they coulda plasticked up their powder measure some with no issues.
I bet they could put a case and bullet feeder on it and still make their 99.99 price point.

 

[C.F.Plinker]

I have had similar trials and tribulations with my press. The first was with the roller type operating handle. I replaced it with a piece of 1/2" rod (bent to match the original) having a 2" wooden ball from Hobby Lobby on the end.

Next I removed the case slider and just put the cases in manually ala the Dillon 550. A side benefit is that picking up the case and inserting it are both at benchtop level.

The press is too low. I made a subbase out of a 2x8 to raise it up a bit. The 2x8 extends out on the right side so I have a place to put the box of empty cases.

A shim under the primer bracket was next. The thickness is important because if it is too thick the primers will tend to flip as they go into the primer cup.

I am still loading ammunition in two passes. The first is with an empty bushing in station 4 to hold the index rod in place and a sizer/decapping die in station 1. I size, decap, and prime on this pass. The second pass is used to flare, charge, seat and crimp.

After loading a 1000 rounds or so I noticed that the cases were not lining up with the dies on the second pass. In my case I traced it to wear in the lower clutch assembly piece. I could see that the + in the center was enlarged. A replacement corrected this problem.

I finally accepted the fact that I had purchased a pre-assembled kit and that it was going to be necessary to take it apart (more or less) and put it back together in order to personalize it to my liking. Sort of like the model cars when I was a kid.

 

[Brad]

Some times Lee hits a home run, sometimes they strike out. Their old round tray hand primer was the best tool I have ever used for priming. Sadly it is no longer made and the “improved” versions are not even close.

I have but one progressive press. It is 25+ years old, has loaded who knows how tens of thousands of rounds, and while it is blue it has never made me blue.